Author Topic: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year  (Read 1976 times)

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Offline chambers

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2012, 06:44:11 AM »
even if you think steamer is a poor post defender...he is still a better post defender than anyone but kg...not even close...that is an indictment of  this yr's players...

I'd actually argue that Collins, Bass and Sullinger are superior post defenders than Steimsma, they both have good footwork.
Steimsma was a great weak side shot blocker and rim protector but he was man handled in the post and teams exploited us by going at him knowing that he'd foul quickly and repeatedly- much like they're doing with Collins, who is a far superior post defender than Steimsma will ever be.
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Offline CFAN38

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2012, 08:43:27 AM »
In my opinion the Cs drop in defense has everything to do with slower rotations.

KG and Paul are another year old and another step slower.

Terry is a lot quicker than Ray but is also smaller and gives less length to the team.

Sullinger is slower and less lengthy than Stiemsma.

Green is a 3/4 and although he has great length at the 3 and average at the 4 is stuck in the middle in terms of quickness.


I still have alot of hope for this team as a defensive unit.

AB coming back will be huge.

A small trade to upgrade the bottom of the big man rotation would also be huge. This team needs to add anther player with some length. The fact that Collins is starting show cases this.

Green and Sully seems to be making small steps in the right direction.


Come playoff time i dont expect this D to be elite but at least much better than they have been to start the season


Offline Fafnir

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2012, 08:45:57 AM »
even if you think steamer is a poor post defender...he is still a better post defender than anyone but kg...not even close...that is an indictment of  this yr's players...

I'd actually argue that Collins, Bass and Sullinger are superior post defenders than Steimsma, they both have good footwork.
Steimsma was a great weak side shot blocker and rim protector but he was man handled in the post and teams exploited us by going at him knowing that he'd foul quickly and repeatedly- much like they're doing with Collins, who is a far superior post defender than Steimsma will ever be.
Yeah Steimsma was prone to fouling and getting pushed around in the post. Some of that was rookie inexperience and rookie whistles, but a lot was that he wasn't as strong as many NBA Cs.

His real value was his overall shot blocking and credible paint protection, not his one on one post defense.

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2012, 10:32:32 AM »
let's put it this way...would you ever put the phrase "post defender" in the same sentence as bass, green, wilcox, sullinger, collins...maybe collins...at best...
Excuse me, but the only thing Collins really does is post defense (as in, one-on-one, back to the basket, post-up defense). Too bad that's just a tiny component of playing center in the NBA.
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Offline Chris

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2012, 12:16:54 PM »
I am not a fan of trying to attribute the difference in defense by putting ratings on the individual players for 2 reasons.

First of all, those ratings are VERY subjective, and I think in many cases are colored by how the team is playing this year versus last year.

Second, the problem has had a lot more to do with team play than individuals IMO.  You can have better defensive players, but if they don't know the system or click together, then you are not going to have a good defensive team.

Last year, the C's came together as a well oiled defensive machine down the stretch.  They became greater than the sum of the parts.  This year, they have been less than the sum of the parts. 

Offline Celtics18

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2012, 12:22:42 PM »
I am not a fan of trying to attribute the difference in defense by putting ratings on the individual players for 2 reasons.

First of all, those ratings are VERY subjective, and I think in many cases are colored by how the team is playing this year versus last year.

Second, the problem has had a lot more to do with team play than individuals IMO.  You can have better defensive players, but if they don't know the system or click together, then you are not going to have a good defensive team.

Last year, the C's came together as a well oiled defensive machine down the stretch.  They became greater than the sum of the parts.  This year, they have been less than the sum of the parts.

I agree.  The positive is that they've shown flashes of still being able to play that kind of defensive and that this is a correctable thing. 

I feel confident that by season's end the Celtics will be where they belong--as a top five defensive team in the league. 
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Offline rutzan

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2012, 12:46:43 PM »
Just keeping it real…I don’t necessarily buy the they need time to gel

2011-2012 Roster New Additions(9)

Brandon Bass - Starter
Keyon Dooling - Rotation Player
Ryan Hollins - Rotation Player
Jajuan Johnson
E’twaun Moore
Mickael Pietrus - Rotation Player
Greg Stiemsma - Rotation Player
Chris Wilcox - Rotation Player
Sean Williams

Note:

Avery Bradley, Marquis Daniels, Jermaine O’Neil, Sasha Pavlovic were all limited in playing time for various reasons in 2010-2011

Offline Chris

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2012, 01:16:04 PM »
Just keeping it real…I don’t necessarily buy the they need time to gel

2011-2012 Roster New Additions(9)

Brandon Bass - Starter
Keyon Dooling - Rotation Player
Ryan Hollins - Rotation Player
Jajuan Johnson
E’twaun Moore
Mickael Pietrus - Rotation Player
Greg Stiemsma - Rotation Player
Chris Wilcox - Rotation Player
Sean Williams

Note:

Avery Bradley, Marquis Daniels, Jermaine O’Neil, Sasha Pavlovic were all limited in playing time for various reasons in 2010-2011

Look back at their record in the first half of the season last year.  They were pretty terrible for the first half of the season, and it took them a long time to gel.

Offline MBunge

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2012, 02:49:46 PM »
In my opinion the Cs drop in defense has everything to do with slower rotations.

While guys not rotating may have something to do with it, I think it's far more simple.  I think it's more about not simply enough pressure on the ball and players not working hard enough to get around screens.  No defense is going to hold up if players are constantly having to make that 3rd and 4th rotation.

I also suspect that the slow, grind-it-out offense Boston has fallen more and more into the last few years has something to do with it.  It's a truism that guys who get involved offensively will give you better effort defensively.  Likewise, when you're in an offense where you stand around for 18 to 20 seconds setting screens and getting yelled at about "spacing", that's probably not a great motivator on the other end of the court.

Mike

Offline rutzan

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2012, 03:11:55 PM »
i'm not saying this is an exact science but i would bet you that they were allowing less points per game in the first 25 games last year than the first 25 games this year...record not withstanding...let's face it...this is the worst defensive team of the kg era...no matter how you slice it...albeit so far...i still hope and believe they will improve...to elite status?...maybe with bradley's return...

Offline rutzan

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2012, 04:14:09 PM »
Thru 27 games
 
2012 – 2013
Record: 14 – 13
Pts allowed per game: 97.0 (+ 6.63)
 
2011 – 2012
Record: 15 – 12
Pts allowed per game: 90.37 (- 6.63)

Offline rutzan

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Re: I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2012, 04:27:08 PM »
Note: 2011 - 2012 Celtics lost their next 5 games after Game #27...during that 5 game losing streak they gave up 98.2 pts per game...if history has anything to say about this...this next stretch is critical!

 

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