I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year

[rutzan]

I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year so I came up with this:

Defense: This yr vs Last yr

Grading Scale:

5 – Major Positive Impact
4 – Minor Positive Impact
3 – No Effect
2 - Minor Negative Impact
1 - Major Negative Impact

2011 – 2012 Roster Departed:

Ray Allen 2
Marquis Daniels 4
Keyon Dooling 4
Ryan Hollins 4
JaJuan Johnson 3
E’Twaun Moore 3
Jermaine O’Neil 4
Sasha Pavlovic 4
Mickael Pietrus 4
Greg Stiemsma 5
Sean Williams 3

2012 – 2013 Roster Added:

Leandro Barbosa 2
Jason Collins 4
Jeff Green 2
Kris Joseph 3
Courtney Lee 4
Fab Melo 3
Darko Milicic 3
Jared Sullinger 2
Jason Terry 2
Jarvis Varnado 3

Observations:

1)Better defense sprinkled throughout last yr’s roster
2)No interiors defenders on this squad except maybe Collins
3)AB is one of the best, if not the best, defenders at the guard position in the nba…he has been sorely missed…he will have a big impact
4)DA went cheap on Stiemsa ala Tony Allen…Steamer may not be getting a lot of minutes in minny but he was perfect for us
5)Rondo’s defense is down this yr
6)We needed better outside shooting last yr so bass was a good pickup but baby’s defense and intensity looks like it is being missed now…albeit baby’s stats this yr are the result of good stats on a bad team...imo...but...you can't have your cake and eat it too...

[timobusa]

Last years squad was a better defensive team, sadly.
This years team has a lot of offensive talent though, all they need to get is the defensive scheme and defensive intensity, and they will be okay.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I could not put my finger on why our defense is worst this year so I came up with this:

Defense: This yr vs Last yr

Grading Scale:

5 – Major Positive Impact
4 – Minor Positive Impact
3 – No Effect
2 - Minor Negative Impact
1 - Major Negative Impact

2011 – 2012 Roster Departed:

Ray Allen 2
Marquis Daniels 4
Keyon Dooling 4
Ryan Hollins 4
JaJuan Johnson 3
E’Twaun Moore 3
Jermaine O’Neil 4
Sasha Pavlovic 4
Mickael Pietrus 4
Greg Stiemsma 5
Sean Williams 3

2012 – 2013 Roster Added:

Leandro Barbosa 2
Jason Collins 4
Jeff Green 2
Kris Joseph 3
Courtney Lee 4
Fab Melo 3
Darko Milicic 3
Jared Sullinger 2
Jason Terry 2
Jarvis Varnado 3

Observations:

1)Better defense sprinkled throughout last yr’s roster
2)No interiors defenders on this squad except maybe Collins
3)AB is one of the best, if not the best, defenders at the guard position in the nba…he has been sorely missed…he will have a big impact
4)DA went cheap on Stiemsa ala Tony Allen…Steamer may not be getting a lot of minutes in minny but he was perfect for us
5)Rondo’s defense is down this yr
6)We needed better outside shooting last yr so bass was a good pickup but baby’s defense and intensity looks like it is being missed now…albeit baby’s stats this yr are the result of good stats on a bad team...imo...but...you can't have your cake and eat it too...

Yes, I pretty much said this before without the break down that you did. I said that we replaced a bunch of solid defenders with guys who excel on offense and are poor defenders. Someone quickly shot that idea down saying that the type of defense we play (a lot of helping) can cover for those who are not good on defense. While I know that to be true the person didn't realize that some people need a lot more help than others do, so that takes a toll on the helpers' energy and then someone has to help their man... there is only so much a team can do to cover up for so many inept defenders! KG is able to help hide other people's weaknesses but he is one man, you can't play him all game and he cant cover for everyone... that means at times we have to have a few bad defenders on the court at once, if they can't help themselves, what makes you think they can help others?


TP to you!

[hpantazo]

Melo, Milicic, and Varnado shouldn't count yet, they haven't really played for this team.

Lee should be a 5, and Green a 4 imo. Sullinger should be a 3.

Last year, Moore was a 2, Pietrus was a 2 or a 3 at most, Williams and JJJ shouldn't be on the list. Steimsma by playoff time with his injuries was a 2, JO was gone by the playoffs, and Daniels shouldn't be on the list either.

I don't think this team is worse defensively than last year's team on a player to player comparison. If anything this team is better. The new players need to really get the defensive sets down pat. If they are not automatic, a half step off kills us.

[kozlodoev]

You can't "grade" defense individually. That's not how it works. Defense is a team effort -- and this year's team does not rotate or guard the pick and roll with any manner of consistency.

[hpantazo]

You can't "grade" defense individually. That's not how it works. Defense is a team effort -- and this year's team does not rotate or guard the pick and roll with any manner of consistency.

exactly. I think a large part of that is getting the defensive rotations down. If players need to think about when/where to rotate, then the defense already failed. They will get there. If Ray Allen could do it, I'm sure Lee, Green, Terry and Sullinger can do it too.

[rutzan]

3 stands for No Effect or for lack of better words NA that is not applicable

[rutzan]

i would be willing to bet that this year's players are worse individually...i'm sure there are defensive stats out there to support this...any sabermetric gurus out there

[hpantazo]

3 stands for No Effect or for lack of better words NA that is not applicable

Ok, NA is fair enough. Still, this year's team has the capability to be a better defensive team than last year's. We have an almost entirely new roster, they have a lot to learn.

[hpantazo]

i would be willing to bet that this year's players are worse individually...i'm sure there are defensive stats out there to support this...any sabermetric gurus out there

Really? A hobbled, over the hill Pietrus, an injured D-league player in Steimsma, a guy who never played in Daniels, and the defensive terror that is Ray Allen were a better defensive group of players on an individual basis?!?!?

[rutzan]

i would still like some sabermetric guru to pitch in...btw...steamer is a better post defender than anyone on this yr's team except kg...hands down...not even a conversation...unless...they make a major trade...the c's are not going to get a very good post defender off the street or overseas or from the nbdl...unless lighting strikes twice from the nbdl with vanardo or fab melo makes a dramatic leap

[crimson_stallion]

Ok, let's not overrate Stiemsma here.  He was a mediocre post defender as evidenced by thefact that he was practically incapable of defending anybody without borderline fouling out of the game.

The guy blocked a lot of shots and he was usable offensively, but his defense outside of shotblocking was nothing special at all.

As for the above ratings, you rate Terry a 2 and JJJ a 3??? JaJuan Johnson was a horrendous defender!

Also a 5 for Lee?  Pietrus was so much better defensively last than Lee is this year.  People are overeating Lee's defense based on his athleticism and reputation, but i have not once seen him lockdown a player on defense the way Pietrus sis on a regular basis. I can justify a 4 for Lee, and Pietrus should be a 5 based on this scale, Stiensma a 4.

Dooling, Marquis and Pavlovic were all solid defensively - a 4 for each is about right.

Collins should be a 3 at best.  Again people overeating him based on reputation but seemingly have not watched him play.  He has defended horribly when he's been on the court and his statistics prove it - he's been our worst defender by a mile.  Hollins was a MASSIVE improvement over Collins defensively.

Statistically Terry is our second beat defensive player after KG.  This is based purely on stats, so take from that what you will!

Our key difference last year us we had two perimeter defenders who were either elite or borderline elite - Pietrus and Bradley.  Those two guys were often on the floor together, and when they were (along with KG) our defense was exceptional.

This season we have one elite perimeter defender and he hasn't played a single game yet.  We desperately need a Pietrus type on the perimeter - a strong, long, athletic defensive/hustle minded player.  Lee is athletic but he's not big or strong enough to challenge bigger guys like LeBron / Carmello, whereas Pietrus, Daniela and Pavlovic were all capable of defending 3 positions. The ability to throw a mass of defenders at theae guys helped us overachieve as a team.

[rutzan]

Grading Scale:

5 – Major Positive Impact
4 – Minor Positive Impact
3 – No Effect
2 - Minor Negative Impact
1 - Major Negative Impact

[hpantazo]

Ok, let's not overrate Stiemsma here.  He was a mediocre post defender as evidenced by thefact that he was practically incapable of defending anybody without borderline fouling out of the game.

The guy blocked a lot of shots and he was usable offensively, but his defense outside of shotblocking was nothing special at all.

As for the above ratings, you rate Terry a 2 and JJJ a 3??? JaJuan Johnson was a horrendous defender!

Also a 5 for Lee?  Pietrus was so much better defensively last than Lee is this year.  People are overeating Lee's defense based on his athleticism and reputation, but i have not once seen him lockdown a player on defense the way Pietrus sis on a regular basis. I can justify a 4 for Lee, and Pietrus should be a 5 based on this scale, Stiensma a 4.

Dooling, Marquis and Pavlovic were all solid defensively - a 4 for each is about right.

Collins should be a 3 at best.  Again people overeating him based on reputation but seemingly have not watched him play.  He has defended horribly when he's been on the court and his statistics prove it - he's been our worst defender by a mile.  Hollins was a MASSIVE improvement over Collins defensively.

Statistically Terry is our second beat defensive player after KG.  This is based purely on stats, so take from that what you will!

Our key difference last year us we had two perimeter defenders who were either elite or borderline elite - Pietrus and Bradley.  Those two guys were often on the floor together, and when they were (along with KG) our defense was exceptional.

This season we have one elite perimeter defender and he hasn't played a single game yet.  We desperately need a Pietrus type on the perimeter - a strong, long, athletic defensive/hustle minded player.  Lee is athletic but he's not big or strong enough to challenge bigger guys like LeBron / Carmello, whereas Pietrus, Daniela and Pavlovic were all capable of defending 3 positions. The ability to throw a mass of defenders at theae guys helped us overachieve as a team.

I agree that Steimsma is a poor post defender. Pietrus however was nowhere near a lockdown defender last year, or this year, or the year before. He's a shadow of his former self since his knee issues, and struggled a lot on defense last year. If he was anywhere near being the lockdown defender you suggest, we would have re-signed him. Instead he sat out half the season without a contract and then signed for the vet min to be a 3rd string player on the T-wolves. If he was such a great defender plenty of contenders would have been knocking down the door trying to sign him.

We should have never let Tony Allen leave. Losing him cost us 2 championships. He was much, much more needed than Perk.

[rutzan]

even if you think steamer is a poor post defender...he is still a better post defender than anyone but kg...not even close...that is an indictment of  this yr's players...