Author Topic: What if....  (Read 3637 times)

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Re: What if....
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 05:10:41 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Maybe it's something about Boston fans and Hakeem that goes back to 1986 when we faced a 2nd year Akeem in the Finals...  because this is the second time I've seen a Celtic fan insanely undervalue how amazing Olajuwon was.

The first time was in 2008 when someone tried to seriously argue that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than "Hakeem in his prime" and that he'd take Perk over "Hakeem in his prime" because of how well he played his role.

Hakeem Olajuwon is probably the most dominant center I have ever seen play. So I am not one of those that undervalue his worth. Haviing said that, I still stand by my OP.

Re: What if....
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 05:12:14 PM »

Offline mgent

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I agree with LarBrd33.  I think you're underestimating how dominant Hakeem was in college.  He certainly wasn't regarded as a project coming out of college; he was the consensus #1 pick.

If I was traveling back in time to 1984 as a GM... I'd still take Hakeem #1.  Jordan's Bulls were a below .500 team until Pippen arrived.  Excellent player without question, but if you're playing the championship game you still probably take Hakeem.

Actually, I know for a fact I'd take Akeem #1 in that draft since I read Bill Simmons' book and Hakeem himself swears that Ralph Sampson had so much value back in 1984 that they could have very easily traded Sampson to the Blazers for both Clyde Drexler (who hadn't done much yet) AND the #2 pick (which they would have used on JOrdan).  You'd end up with Hakeem, Drexler and Jordan. LOl.

Fab Melo is nowhere near that type of prospect.
Ouch.  7 steals a game from 3 players alone, none of which are even your PG?

Roy makes a good point though, do they take Jordan if they already get Drexler?  I'd go with Stockton, get him like 10 rings and make it so a Laker isn't the best PG of all time.

Although if Drexler and Hakeem were actually able to hook up in their prime they wouldn't need anybody to beat Jordan.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: What if....
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 05:25:31 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I agree with LarBrd33.  I think you're underestimating how dominant Hakeem was in college.  He certainly wasn't regarded as a project coming out of college; he was the consensus #1 pick.

If I was traveling back in time to 1984 as a GM... I'd still take Hakeem #1.  Jordan's Bulls were a below .500 team until Pippen arrived.  Excellent player without question, but if you're playing the championship game you still probably take Hakeem.

Actually, I know for a fact I'd take Akeem #1 in that draft since I read Bill Simmons' book and Hakeem himself swears that Ralph Sampson had so much value back in 1984 that they could have very easily traded Sampson to the Blazers for both Clyde Drexler (who hadn't done much yet) AND the #2 pick (which they would have used on JOrdan).  You'd end up with Hakeem, Drexler and Jordan. LOl.

Fab Melo is nowhere near that type of prospect.
Ouch.  7 steals a game from 3 players alone, none of which are even your PG?

Roy makes a good point though, do they take Jordan if they already get Drexler?  I'd go with Stockton, get him like 10 rings and make it so a Laker isn't the best PG of all time.

Although if Drexler and Hakeem were actually able to hook up in their prime they wouldn't need anybody to beat Jordan.
In Simmons' book Hakeem mentions the deal was on the table... they could have had the #2 pick AND Drexler for Sampson, but they decided to hang onto Sampson.   

I mean... if I'm taking a time machine back to 1984, I totally do that deal.  Drexler didn't do anything his rookie season, but in year 2 he averaged 17 points, 6 rebounds 9 assists 2.5 steals for the Blazers.  I'd just play Drexler at PG in 1984 and let him and Jordan play together that season... then I'd flip Drexler to Utah for John Stockton (didn't do much of anything as a rookie and was picked 16th) and Utah's 1985 1st rounder (#13)... who I'd use to take Malone.

Then I'd just have

PG - Stockton
SG - Jordan
PF - Malone
C - Olajuwon

Nice start.  Lol

While I'm at it... Rodney McCray probably had a lot of value back then too, right?  He had been the 3rd pick for the Rockets in 1983... He was 23 years old in 1984-85 and averaged 14.4 points, 4.3 assists, 6.6 rebounds on 53% shooting ....  How valuable do you figure he was?  Do you think I could send him to Dallas in for the 8th and 17th picks in the 1985 draft?  I'd take Detlef Schrempf and Joe Dumars.

PG - Stockton
SG - Jordan
SF - Detlef
PF - Malone
C - Olajuwan
--
6th man:  Joe Dumars

Or Maybe I trade up the 8th pick to #7 instead and take Chris Mullin... tough call there.  What can I get for Lewis Lloyd?... this is serious business. 

Am I off topic?  The title of this thread is "What if..."
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 05:42:40 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: What if....
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 05:32:41 PM »

Offline alajet

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we have Akeem Olajuwon in the D-League and we do not even know it.

Fab Melo like Akeem is tall and athletic, he is actually taller than Akeem.

Fab Melo like Akeem comes from a soccer playing background.

Fab Melo like Akeem played just a couple of years in college and opted early for the draft. I think Akeem may have played one more year in college which means he was more developed than Fab coming out. Akeem also had played some basketball in his native Nigeria before playing NCAA ball. Akeem was definitely more experienced than Fab at this stage.

Fab Melo like Akeem showed little offensive skills in college depending more on height athelticism and superior footwork to be a monster on defense.

I believe that Akeem had a lot more swagger and confidence than Fab Melo coming into the league, and the challenge of the Celtics is to get this kid confidence. I doubt that Doc Rivers is the best coach for that. He simply does not develop players very well.

Anyway, I believe we have an Akeem in our farm system, the question is can we turn him into a HAKEEM?

There have been numerous Hakeems in the farm since Hakeem. Mostly African heritage and size has been the single thing that indicated you were the next Hakeem.

Yet, there is still no exception in that list Hakeem cannot beat one-on-one now in his fifties.

Re: What if....
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 06:04:12 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Akeem was drafted for his upside, he was very raw in college in spite of having already played club ball in his native Nigeria.

This just isn't true.

Hakeem was a first-team All-America coming out of college, and in '83 was the Final Four Most Outstanding Player.  He averaged 17 points and 13.5 boards on 68% shooting as a junior.  He took his team to three straight Final Fours, including two Finals appearances.

As a rookie, he made the all-rookie first team, and was rookie of the month three times.  He averaged 20.6 points per game, 11.9 rebounds, and 2.7 blocks.

Hakeem -- or Akeem, if you prefer -- was not a project.  Everyone expected him to be an all-time great coming out of school.

My use of Akeem vs. Hakeem was to separate the raw player from the player that became one of the best centers of all-time. I do not want to compare Fab to the great Hakeem but the much more impressionable young man that came out of Nigeria.

What most people do not realize is how much basketball Akeem had played before coming to the US.

Doesn't matter.  Akeem and Hakeem were both incredibly talented bigs.  Like Charles Barkley once said, "Olajuwan was so good he changed his name from Akeem to Hakeem."

Re: What if....
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2012, 06:05:06 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I agree with LarBrd33.  I think you're underestimating how dominant Hakeem was in college.  He certainly wasn't regarded as a project coming out of college; he was the consensus #1 pick.

If I was traveling back in time to 1984 as a GM... I'd still take Hakeem #1.  Jordan's Bulls were a below .500 team until Pippen arrived.  Excellent player without question, but if you're playing the championship game you still probably take Hakeem.

Actually, I know for a fact I'd take Akeem #1 in that draft since I read Bill Simmons' book and Hakeem himself swears that Ralph Sampson had so much value back in 1984 that they could have very easily traded Sampson to the Blazers for both Clyde Drexler (who hadn't done much yet) AND the #2 pick (which they would have used on JOrdan).  You'd end up with Hakeem, Drexler and Jordan. LOl.

Fab Melo is nowhere near that type of prospect.
Ouch.  7 steals a game from 3 players alone, none of which are even your PG?

Roy makes a good point though, do they take Jordan if they already get Drexler?  I'd go with Stockton, get him like 10 rings and make it so a Laker isn't the best PG of all time.

Although if Drexler and Hakeem were actually able to hook up in their prime they wouldn't need anybody to beat Jordan.
In Simmons' book Hakeem mentions the deal was on the table... they could have had the #2 pick AND Drexler for Sampson, but they decided to hang onto Sampson.   

I mean... if I'm taking a time machine back to 1984, I totally do that deal.  Drexler didn't do anything his rookie season, but in year 2 he averaged 17 points, 6 rebounds 9 assists 2.5 steals for the Blazers.  I'd just play Drexler at PG in 1984 and let him and Jordan play together that season... then I'd flip Drexler to Utah for John Stockton (didn't do much of anything as a rookie and was picked 16th) and Utah's 1985 1st rounder (#13)... who I'd use to take Malone.

Then I'd just have

PG - Stockton
SG - Jordan
PF - Malone
C - Olajuwon

Nice start.  Lol

While I'm at it... Rodney McCray probably had a lot of value back then too, right?  He had been the 3rd pick for the Rockets in 1983... He was 23 years old in 1984-85 and averaged 14.4 points, 4.3 assists, 6.6 rebounds on 53% shooting ....  How valuable do you figure he was?  Do you think I could send him to Dallas in for the 8th and 17th picks in the 1985 draft?  I'd take Detlef Schrempf and Joe Dumars.

PG - Stockton
SG - Jordan
SF - Detlef
PF - Malone
C - Olajuwan
--
6th man:  Joe Dumars

Or Maybe I trade up the 8th pick to #7 instead and take Chris Mullin... tough call there.  What can I get for Lewis Lloyd?... this is serious business. 

Am I off topic?  The title of this thread is "What if..."

Just goes to show you how stacked that Phi Slamma Jamma Houston team was in the early 80s. The rockets did get a little greedy with the Hakeem and Samspon twin tower concept.

What if they did not get greedy and rather than draft Hakeem they traded his rights for the second and drexler. Then they would have had SAMPSON, DREXLER, AND JORDAN.

I think Sampson would have had a much longer career if he had not been forced to play PF next to Hakeem. He was played out of position.

Re: What if....
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2012, 06:16:25 PM »

Offline alajet

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Who would expect to see all these names in the same thread?
Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Ralph Sampson, Joe Dumars..

And Fab Melo.

Re: What if....
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2012, 08:12:08 PM »

Offline nostar

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Hakeem RIGHT NOW is probably still better than Fab Melo

So well put.

This is a homer thread if I've ever seen one.

Re: What if....
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2012, 08:50:04 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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For Houston, if you have a time machine, you take Hakeem, trade for Sampson for Jordan and Drexler and enjoy the rings. Great thing is the Lakers likely do not get the 85, 87 and 88 titles.

Re: What if....
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2012, 08:52:36 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Of course, what if Pittno doesn't trade Billups and drafts T-Mac?

Re: What if....
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2012, 09:45:40 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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we have Akeem Olajuwon in the D-League and we do not even know it.

Fab Melo like Akeem is tall and athletic, he is actually taller than Akeem.

Fab Melo like Akeem comes from a soccer playing background.

Fab Melo like Akeem played just a couple of years in college and opted early for the draft. I think Akeem may have played one more year in college which means he was more developed than Fab coming out. Akeem also had played some basketball in his native Nigeria before playing NCAA ball. Akeem was definitely more experienced than Fab at this stage.

Fab Melo like Akeem showed little offensive skills in college depending more on height athelticism and superior footwork to be a monster on defense.

I believe that Akeem had a lot more swagger and confidence than Fab Melo coming into the league, and the challenge of the Celtics is to get this kid confidence. I doubt that Doc Rivers is the best coach for that. He simply does not develop players very well.

Anyway, I believe we have an Akeem in our farm system, the question is can we turn him into a HAKEEM?


Re: What if....
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2012, 10:10:02 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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For Houston, if you have a time machine, you take Hakeem, trade for Sampson for Jordan and Drexler and enjoy the rings. Great thing is the Lakers likely do not get the 85, 87 and 88 titles.

Ha.  But Celts fans might not be able to talk about the '86 team as the best ever.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: What if....
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2012, 10:13:28 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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For Houston, if you have a time machine, you take Hakeem, trade for Sampson for Jordan and Drexler and enjoy the rings. Great thing is the Lakers likely do not get the 85, 87 and 88 titles.

Ha.  But Celts fans might not be able to talk about the '86 team as the best ever.

Jordan hurt his foot that year. It hurts Houston and we get the 86 ring. My time machine, my rules.  ;D

Re: What if....
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2012, 10:25:05 PM »

Offline Mr Green

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I haven't LOLed this hard since rookie Harold Miner was being hyped as the second coming of Michael Jordan about twenty years ago ... thanks!

Re: What if....
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2012, 11:13:55 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Harold Baby Jordan Miner, worse nickname ever.

 

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