Author Topic: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back  (Read 6460 times)

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Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #60 on: December 25, 2012, 09:24:15 PM »

Offline cman88

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So these guys are basically saying, if Bradley goes down again with another injury, our season is over, because he's basically the only hope we have. I don't like the sounds of that to be honest. The Bulls are still winning without their best player in Derrick Rose, but we cannot win without a role player like Bradley?

The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Chicago had so much success last year not because of their scoring, but because of their top 3 defense.  Rose is an average defender, so even with him out the bulls were STILL a top 3 defense.  Noah, Deng and the bench anchored that defense, and you could argue that any one of those components (Noah especially) was just as important as Rose.  This is why when Rose went down Chicago as a team didn't really get much worse, but when Noah AND Rose when down they crumbled.  Take away the offense and Chicago can still grind out wins, but take away their defense and they are nothing.

Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team.  He's an undersized SG in a PG's body.  He's not a fantastic shooter but he's great at using his athleticism, ball handling and body control to drive and finish around the basket.  He's not a fantastic defender or a fantastic playmaker, but he's at times been forced to play PG simply due to his lack of size and his ability to handle the ball.  Still Ellis has averaged ~25PPG over much of his career, and he has pretty much always been the best player on his team.  If he played for a mass market team (like NY, Boston, Chicago or LA) with a top 4 record in their conference he would be a guaranteed All-Star and a regular MVP candidate. 

The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.  He's a very good player but he's nowhere near as important to this Bulls team as people belive.  Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

Moving on to Boston, and we have had a similar team philosophy - we are all about defense.  We have never been a great offensive team, but we have been successful as a team because we have consistently had a top 3 defense in the league.  Take away a key offensive player and we can still win with out defense, just like we did when Ray was out with injuries hurt last season.  However, take away one of our key defensive pieces (Bradley or Garnett) and we would struggle to make the playoffs simply because we dont have enough scoring power to overcome our weakened defense.

This is why Avery Bradley is not just important, but absolutely CRITICAL to this team.  When Ray went out last season, if Bradley never stepped up the way he did defensively we would never had had near the success we did.  We would have missed Ray's presence far more.  However because Bradley impacted on our defense so dramatically, out defense improved to the point where we were making up for the scoring we lost with Ray (and then some). 

Take away one of our key scorers and we can still grind out games, as long as our defense is at an elite (top 3) level - we proved this last year because our offense all season was horrendous.   For our defense to be at that level we need both KG and Bradley out there on the court.  But if we lose one of those two defenders and our defense drops outside the top 10, we simply do not have enough scoring power to offset that loss.  We can't simply outshoot opposing teams.  It probagly hurts us more to lose an elite defender (Bradley, KG) then it does to lose an elite offensive player (Rondo, Pierce).

At least that is my theory!

this is Spot on IMO!

bradley is an ELITE defender who'se presence affects how the team plays defense...all the stats from last season show it.

you are going to have poor shooting nights. but as long as you make sure the other team has a WORSE shooting night you still can win...


Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2012, 07:47:16 PM »

Offline truthhurts34

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The Bulls with Rose were a 60 win team, Spicoli you are delusional.

Bulls might win 40 games this year, they've had a great start but the season is still young.

That is a 20+ game winning difference with Rose on the Bulls. Bradley DOES NOT make up for that many wins with the c's.

And the fact that you say Rose is grossly overpaid when he was a top 5 player when he was healthy is asinine. What top 5 player is not worth the max?

Just stop.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2012, 08:52:17 PM »

Offline cman88

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truthhurts,  I dont think his point is to discount rose other than to show that the bulls are winning BECAUSE of their defense.

that same bulls team before thibs and the 60win season was first round fodder...you could say that had to do with youth/maturity...but really the difference was they began to play defense with Thibs.

generally you can survive a poor-shooting night if you make the other team shoot less than you. even if your shot is not falling you can always rely on defense.


Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2012, 08:57:11 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Quote
Rose is an average defender

Quote
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team


Quote
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
 
 
Quote
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

I don't think any of this is accurate.  I think you're drastically underrating Rose.


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Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2012, 09:03:16 PM »

Offline j804

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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Quote
Rose is an average defender

Quote
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team


Quote
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
 
 
Quote
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

I don't think any of this is accurate.  I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
Those statements are ridiculous you must have not watched Rose a lot he's special


Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2012, 09:05:54 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Quote
Rose is an average defender

Quote
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team


Quote
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
 
 
Quote
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

I don't think any of this is accurate.  I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
Those statements are ridiculous you must have not watched Rose a lot he's special

Rose was a MVP for a reason. When heathy he is a top 10 player for sure and probably a top 5 player. People tend to forget a little too quickly b/c Rose is capable of taking over a game at any point.

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Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2012, 09:15:09 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Reading through this thread, i would guess that Avery Bradley will be signing a mega contract when the current one is up, will be a perennial all star if he can stay healthy for a full season, and will likely be a hall of famer. I am looking forward to him getting back, but a lot of the stuff I am reading has me scratching my head. The Celtics really can't play defense without Avery Bradley? Every other Celtic player is now going to be much better on defense because of Avery Bradley? All of a sudden guys are going to rotate correctly and be in the right place on defense because of Avery Bradley? The defense has no energy now, but when Bradley comes back it will be energized?

The guy has never played a full season.  Yes, he is effective, but the hype seems over the top.

As or Rose, he is. Top 5 player in the NBA, and he is way more important to the Bulls than Bedley is to the Celtics.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2012, 09:24:04 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Reading through this thread, i would guess that Avery Bradley will be signing a mega contract when the current one is up, will be a perennial all star if he can stay healthy for a full season, and will likely be a hall of famer. I am looking forward to him getting back, but a lot of the stuff I am reading has me scratching my head. The Celtics really can't play defense without Avery Bradley? Every other Celtic player is now going to be much better on defense because of Avery Bradley? All of a sudden guys are going to rotate correctly and be in the right place on defense because of Avery Bradley? The defense has no energy now, but when Bradley comes back it will be energized?

The guy has never played a full season.  Yes, he is effective, but the hype seems over the top.

As or Rose, he is. Top 5 player in the NBA, and he is way more important to the Bulls than Bedley is to the Celtics.

Thank you vinnie.

This basically sums up my thoughts, too.  Bradley is a great defender, but it's not like he's going to alter our team drastically.  Sure, our defense will be better than it is now, but I don't expect it to be back to what it used to be.  I don't think our guys have it in them to do it.

I can't believe how Rose has been treated after his injury.  This guy is arguably the most athletic guard in the NBA, can get to the rim at will, and is incredibly humble.  While Bradley is important to our success, you cannot compare that to Rose's importance to Chicago.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2012, 09:29:31 PM »

Offline cman88

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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects

I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.

by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2012, 09:50:49 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Having the Jet and Courtney Lee come off the bench helps too. They seem to work really well together and when Rondo's off the floor. They'll also have more defined roles.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2012, 10:41:14 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects

I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.

by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.

Exactly what I said... it isn't about him being a savior, he just does his job very well which in turn allows others to go back to doing what they do instead of them trying to do what they aren't good at. Heck, people don't need to listen to us about this RR said himself what AB means, I think I will take what the team said over people on the outside. What would PP, RR, KG, and Doc have to lie about when it comes to what AB means to the team defensively (and offensively)... people on here act like We (fans) are just spouting these things at random... I know what I said about AB is not only what I saw, I can post videos/articles of THE PLAYERS saying those things! About energy, his full court D, letting RR be RR, and taking some of the pressure off of everyone by just doing his job and doing it very well... those aren't just my words, it takes little time to find that those are the player's words!

So "you" can miss me with thinking people are saying he will be a perennial All-star and what have you... many people NEVER become All-stars but are huge cogs in what makes their team go! KG is our MVP and one of the best, how did that fair last season when it came time to be an All-star?

Some of you make me laugh!
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Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2012, 02:16:47 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I dont think Bradley "alone" impoves the team, its more the fact of what adding just him does to our roster and the trickle down effects

I look at it similarly to how adding just Talib Aqib improved the pats defense. it wasnt that he was "soo great" it improved the team. its the fact that it moved guys to positions that more played to their strengths.

by adding Bradley you replace a poor defender in the starting unit with an excellent one. and put a perennial 6th man of the year contender back into a position where he is most comfortable...that alone improves the team right there.

Exactly what I said... it isn't about him being a savior, he just does his job very well which in turn allows others to go back to doing what they do instead of them trying to do what they aren't good at. Heck, people don't need to listen to us about this RR said himself what AB means, I think I will take what the team said over people on the outside. What would PP, RR, KG, and Doc have to lie about when it comes to what AB means to the team defensively (and offensively)... people on here act like We (fans) are just spouting these things at random... I know what I said about AB is not only what I saw, I can post videos/articles of THE PLAYERS saying those things! About energy, his full court D, letting RR be RR, and taking some of the pressure off of everyone by just doing his job and doing it very well... those aren't just my words, it takes little time to find that those are the player's words!

So "you" can miss me with thinking people are saying he will be a perennial All-star and what have you... many people NEVER become All-stars but are huge cogs in what makes their team go! KG is our MVP and one of the best, how did that fair last season when it came time to be an All-star?

Some of you make me laugh!

He has proven to be an excellent on-ball defender. He still has yet to play an injury-free season. How many total games as he played in his NBA career? He will improve the team, but he will not get the team anywhere near where it needs to be to become a real contender.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2012, 03:43:29 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I guess the main thing Bradley will do is give Barbosa a bunch of DNPs.  Only so many minutes to go around.  I like all 4 of our shooting guards, but I think all of them teeter between "fringe starter" and "solid player off the bench".  I'd be happy with 1 of those guys... I dont' see the point of 4 of those guys.

I also don't know if Bradley is an upgrade over Courtney Lee.  I think Lee is a great defender in his own right and probably better offensively.  He's also bigger than Bradley.  We'll see what happens, though.

Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2012, 03:48:07 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Quote
Rose is an average defender

Quote
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team


Quote
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
 
 
Quote
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

I don't think any of this is accurate.  I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
LOL @ the Rose comments.

Only in Boston is Fab Melo the next Akeem and Avery Bradley is more impactful than an MVP player.

Lets dance


Re: Rondo thinks the team will be different with Bradley back
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2012, 04:18:26 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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The difference is that Bradley is more important to us then Rose is to Chicago.

Quote
Rose is an average defender

Quote
Derek Rose is (at the end of the day) just Monta Ellis on a large market team


Quote
The moral of the story here is that Rose is grossly overrated.
 
 
Quote
Put any volume scorer in his place and the Bulls would be the same team.

I don't think any of this is accurate.  I think you're drastically underrating Rose.
LOL @ the Rose comments.

Only in Boston is Fab Melo the next Akeem and Avery Bradley is more impactful than an MVP player.

Lets dance




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