Author Topic: Collins starting? We are done.  (Read 5886 times)

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Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 11:25:44 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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collins is a total scrub. Unless the c's get a center at least as good as Gortat(without totally depleting the depth we have) there is no chance we get by New York or Miami in the east. Indiana might take us down too.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 11:27:10 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Even if he get a 0 tonight he will be above his average...lol

p.s. Collins is doing the dirty work, finally someone is doing it.
I can only admire it. he knows his role and play it. Bass and Sully better learn and fast or minutes for them are going to be cut
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Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 11:33:08 AM »

Offline action781

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Seriously? That is what we are reduced to? Collins has not started for a team since 2007. That team? The New Jersey Nets. Remember them? They stank and were a joke. His best PER ever? 10. His best PER since 2006? 5. Yup, 5. Now I know that PER is not the end all be all, and I am sure kool-aid drinkers will tell me that Hollinger is a joke, blah blah blah....But really, a five?

Collins starting? We already have trouble scoring. He can not throw the ball in the ocean. He would put KG even further away from the hoop on offense, making us an even more perimeter oriented team. That would get ugly real quick.

Face facts. If Celtic nation is cheering the "arrival" of big man savior Jason Collins as it seems we are in most circles, we are cooked like a Christmas Goose. In keeping with that Dickens reference: Collins as our starting 5? Bah Humbug.

Not started for a team since 2007?  He started 10/66 games for the playoff Atlanta hawks just last season.  The season before he started 28 reg season games for them and then started 9 playoff games in a series they beat the Orlando Magic and a series they lost to the #1 Bulls in 6.

We already have trouble scoring?  We're currently 13th in the nba in offensive efficiency.  We are also 13th in the nba with 93.37 points per game.  Yet we're 15th in the nba in points allowed per game with 93.72.  How can you be concerned with our offense when our defense is a far more pressing issue and supposed to be the celtics identity?

I don't think Jason Collins is the long term solution, but he is a temporary stop gap as the celtics start to look for what the long term solution is.
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Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 11:44:28 AM »

Offline Celts Fan 92

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+23

touchee

Even if he get a 0 tonight he will be above his average...lol

p.s. Collins is doing the dirty work, finally someone is doing it.
I can only admire it. he knows his role and play it. Bass and Sully better learn and fast or minutes for them are going to be cut
wat? lol Sully hustles everytime he's out there he just aint a shotblocker but his rebounding has been solid in limited minutes

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 11:48:43 AM »

Offline Chris

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wat? lol Sully hustles everytime he's out there he just aint a shotblocker but his rebounding has been solid in limited minutes

Doc's constant complaint about Sully has been about consistent effort.  He will hustle his butt off for stretches, and then go on cruise control. 

This is the biggest reason he hasn't completely overpassed Bass.  Doc is trying to get it through his head that in the NBA (especially when you are a role player), your motor needs to be going full speed, every second you are on the floor.

I really think Doc has purposely minimized Sully's minutes so far this season, in order to teach him this lesson, so that later in the season, they can get more out of him.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 12:03:39 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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My theory: starting Collins is an experiment. Doc and Danny are testing out a bigger lineup with KG at PF, and seeing how the bench rotations and chemistry look when we have a real C.

If it looks good, we are more likely to pursue a C before the trade deadline.

We also learn who fits better in the second unit, Bass or Sullinger, to figure out who we want to keep and who we want to trade. They can't both get meaningful minutes off the bench.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 12:13:14 PM »

Offline esel1000

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touchee

all that needs to be said. Though it was against the Varaejaoless Cavs. It isn't a bad move for now but I'd be pretty happy if the C's managed to land Gortat or something along those lines. I think the move proves Danny is going to be actively looking for a center. Hell I'd take J.J Hickson at this point guys having a year in Portland

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 12:15:20 PM »

Offline Who

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wat? lol Sully hustles everytime he's out there he just aint a shotblocker but his rebounding has been solid in limited minutes

Doc's constant complaint about Sully has been about consistent effort.  He will hustle his butt off for stretches, and then go on cruise control. 

This is the biggest reason he hasn't completely overpassed Bass.  Doc is trying to get it through his head that in the NBA (especially when you are a role player), your motor needs to be going full speed, every second you are on the floor.

I really think Doc has purposely minimized Sully's minutes so far this season, in order to teach him this lesson, so that later in the season, they can get more out of him.

Or, Sully just isn't that good right now and doesn't deserve any more playing time.

That's how I see it.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 12:16:41 PM »

Offline Chris

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wat? lol Sully hustles everytime he's out there he just aint a shotblocker but his rebounding has been solid in limited minutes

Doc's constant complaint about Sully has been about consistent effort.  He will hustle his butt off for stretches, and then go on cruise control. 

This is the biggest reason he hasn't completely overpassed Bass.  Doc is trying to get it through his head that in the NBA (especially when you are a role player), your motor needs to be going full speed, every second you are on the floor.

I really think Doc has purposely minimized Sully's minutes so far this season, in order to teach him this lesson, so that later in the season, they can get more out of him.

Or, Sully just isn't that good right now and doesn't deserve any more playing time.

That's how I see it.

That too.  But I think he is better than Bass right now (albeit slightly).  But Doc has always favorite teaching young players early in their careers, over giving them too much too soon.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 12:18:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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My theory: starting Collins is an experiment. Doc and Danny are testing out a bigger lineup with KG at PF, and seeing how the bench rotations and chemistry look when we have a real C.

If it looks good, we are more likely to pursue a C before the trade deadline.

We also learn who fits better in the second unit, Bass or Sullinger, to figure out who we want to keep and who we want to trade. They can't both get meaningful minutes off the bench.


Yup , I agree , I think DA has probally suggested to Doc they need to try a diff. look.

No ...no way Collins is taking us anywhere , but he is being used to teach the rest of the team how the Celtics will look and play with a BIG CENTER .  HOPEFULLY preparing them to return to "CELTICS" basketball.

Sully is a natural rebounder, will be able to do most of what Bass does best in 1-2 years and probally much better in the long run. He is on a cheaper rookie contract...and will have more value down the road. The choice is obvious to keep him.   Dump Bass, Lee , and Green for a BIG. Keep Sully , AB and Fab.

Maybe Danny can hussle the C's up a decent Center to anchor the team while Fab goes to school.  Love to see us keep Fab and have him as a backup next year off the bench.

I just think especially at their age KG and PP need to be playing along side a BIG center to patrol the paint and help with the dribble penetration.

All I want for XMAS is Varejao in Celtic Green. 

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 12:23:03 PM »

Offline Chris

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My theory: starting Collins is an experiment. Doc and Danny are testing out a bigger lineup with KG at PF, and seeing how the bench rotations and chemistry look when we have a real C.

If it looks good, we are more likely to pursue a C before the trade deadline.

We also learn who fits better in the second unit, Bass or Sullinger, to figure out who we want to keep and who we want to trade. They can't both get meaningful minutes off the bench.

While I think everything is an experiment right now, as they try to fix things, I don't think they really need to see what it looks like having another big man out there.

I just think they are trying to get the team back on track, as they find their identity.

With that said, I would not be surprised if they are committed to trying to find another bruising type big man to eventually take that starting spot, and they are trying to establish their new identity (which is actually their old identity), before they can sort that out.  So, its not so much an experiment to see what it looks like, but the beginning of the transition (or regression) in style, to a more defensive oriented team. 

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 12:24:55 PM »

Offline Edgar

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Even if he get a 0 tonight he will be above his average...lol

p.s. Collins is doing the dirty work, finally someone is doing it.
I can only admire it. he knows his role and play it. Bass and Sully better learn and fast or minutes for them are going to be cut
wat? lol Sully hustles everytime he's out there he just aint a shotblocker but his rebounding has been solid in limited minutes

like Chris said he goes on cruise control often
Hey I am all in for the kid, I am not saying our future deppends or collins or Sully is bad
just pointing he have to be aware
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Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2012, 12:26:12 PM »

Offline Edgar

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All I want for XMAS is Varejao in Celtic Green.

Me too. I think even when hes the best around and people think we dont have enough I think his injuries and where Cle is going can put us in the market
I can only pray and hope with faith
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Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 12:26:57 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Oh give me a break. This obviously isn't the long term solution. Do you honestly think danny is gonna let the trade deadline pass and keep collins at center? Use your head man. For a temporary fix i like it. If other people won't do their jobs then collins will. +23 hard to argue with that.

Re: Collins starting? We are done.
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2012, 12:29:47 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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My theory: starting Collins is an experiment. Doc and Danny are testing out a bigger lineup with KG at PF, and seeing how the bench rotations and chemistry look when we have a real C.

If it looks good, we are more likely to pursue a C before the trade deadline.

We also learn who fits better in the second unit, Bass or Sullinger, to figure out who we want to keep and who we want to trade. They can't both get meaningful minutes off the bench.

Makes sense, sort of.  I'd say the past years when KG had a true center next to him are plenty enough evidence of how ell it would work.  Seeing how the team looks with a true center is good and all, unless of course, the player you're using in that role is a scrub.  Collins is a warm body essentially, but as our play has been mediocre at best so far, trying something new is nessecary.

That being said, Danny was just the other day quoted as saying "maybe playing small isn't the best way to play going forward".  It's obvious the Celtics need a better, bigger C/PF.  Bass and Sully are redundant, and terrible together.  Neither is, at the moment, a true starting quality big.  Either would be fine as the 1st big off the bench, though.