Author Topic: Just how strong is the East?  (Read 2064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Just how strong is the East?
« on: December 20, 2012, 10:43:47 AM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6390
  • Tommy Points: 607
  • Intensity!!!
1.New York   19-6
2.Miami   16-6
3.Atlanta   15-8
4.Chicago   14-10
5.Milwaukee 13-11
6.Indiana   14-12
7.Brooklyn   13-12
8.Boston      13-12
9.Orlando   12-13
10.Philadelphia 12-14

The East has not shaped into the conference that a lot of people thought it would be. It is definitely the inferior conference, even with the Lakers being so poor.

I see hope for Boston.

Above is the top ten teams in the east currently. We are 8th and just two game out of 4th. The remaining 5 teams (Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, Detroit, and Cleveland) are all but done. Orlando will not last either. 9 teams competing for 8 spots and unless the injury big kills us we will be a playoff team. The only question is, what is our seed.

Injuries and their impact

Chicago, Indiana, and Philly are all suffering from injuries to arguably their best players. Philly is beginning to fade. They have lost 4 or 5 in a row. Depending on when Bynum comes back they might be the first round team no one wants to see. If Bynum doesn't come back then they will be lucky to make the post season. I believe he makes some type of return b/c too much money is on the line for this guy right now. What his impact will be I don't know, but they have the potential to be very good.

The same I can't say for Indiana and Chicago. I don't see Rose being Adrian Peterson. He is still expected to be out for a couple more months and I believe the minute the Bull's starters are playing will catch up with them. One more injury to a key player and they are in trouble. I see us catching them in the standings. Indiana I see us catch as well. Granger is still months away and outside of David West (playing great) they are very young. I believe we will catch them too. I don't see us matching up with either in the first round and both being eliminated in the first round.

Overperforming

Both Atlanta and Milwaukee are over performing. If Milwaukee could make a move for a big then they could be more legit. But when was the last time they were relevant? I see them coming down to earth. Hopefully it's shortly after an upcoming loss to Boston. I think we surpass them in the standings shortly. Atlanta is playing well too, but I don't see it lasting. Overall I think they lack the fire power to sustain this winning. I believe we surpass them as well. Assuming they stand pat I would love to play them in the first round.

New York Teams

Like Boston both teams have a ton of new faces. For NYC it's been about Melo and the three ball. They look good. But can Jason Kidd keep it up? He has been key to their greatness and is the reason I expect Amare and Melo to finally work. Amare is without a doubt the X factor. He gives them the second go to guy required to make long playoff runs. BUT if he comes back and hi and Melo can't play together then they aren't getting to ECF. Depending on threes and only having one superior talent can be great in the regular season but it won't work in the playoffs. Amare playing well would make NYC a tough out for Boston especially since they likely have HCA. Amare playing like last year makes NYC a good matchup for Boston and highly vulnerable to 2nd round upset.

Brooklyn has lost 4 in a row and 8 of its last 10. They're struggling mightily to finish games and a lot of this has to do with unfamiliarity amongst their top players. Deron looks overrated and him and Joe haven't formed the chemistry needed to advance deep in the playoffs. They have a lot of talent, but can they put it together this season in their first playoffs? Won't know until we get there but I like how we match up with them too. I think we finish ahead of them.

Miami

Beasts of the Easts. They will be there in the ECF.

Where I see the Celtics

In the end I expect us to finish third in the East. This assumes all teams are healthy. I think we battle NY in the semis. I think we defend the three well and I don't believe Amare and Carmelo play as well as they need to to win. I see AB and Rondo making life miserable for Kidd and Felton and we win in 6.

I then see us battling Miami and at that point - who knows?

Why?

The East lacks dominant teams with size. I think the Celtics will continue to be up and down but finish the last quarter of the season strong. Other then NY and Miami I believe all of the other teams will be up and down as well and bunched together. Boston play its best come playoff time and our best players have seen it all and will be prepared for anything. The rest of the team will follow their lead and we will be in Miami for game 1 of the ECF.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), PHI(prot), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC, MIA

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 11:24:41 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10071
  • Tommy Points: 605
I see three serious contenders in the East. Miami, Knicks, and Celtics. I dont think any of those other teams have a chance at getting to the Finals, unless a team like Atlanta makes a trade for a superstar or Rose comes back from injury healthier than expected. Still I think the East has 3 major players and thats it.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 12:16:34 PM »

Offline Who

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30217
  • Tommy Points: 1260
I think a lot of Brooklyn's struggles are down to bad coaching.

Their offensive system is terrible. It's amazing to me that Avery Johnson can't get more out of his players with the number of weapons they have.

They need to fire Avery and replace him with a high quality coach.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 12:19:10 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10071
  • Tommy Points: 605
I think a lot of Brooklyn's struggles are down to bad coaching.

Their offensive system is terrible. It's amazing to me that Avery Johnson can't get more out of his players with the number of weapons they have.

They need to fire Avery and replace him with a high quality coach.

I agree that their offensive system is a mess and that Avery is not allowing them to play to their potential. But at the same time, I think the whole Nets team is overrated. Williams was overrated since his Utah days, Iso-Joe isnt very smart, Wallace is gritty but is loosing a step, Humphries does nothing for me, and Lopez isnt a top notch center.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 12:21:12 PM »

Offline Who

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30217
  • Tommy Points: 1260
I would be worried about landing Chicago in the first round if Derrick Rose is back and is playing at even 80% of his normal level. That would be a seriously dangerous team. The Bulls are the most dangerous team in the East for Boston outside of Miami.

It looks like there is a fair shot both teams could end up at #4 and #5 or even if one struggles at #3 and #6. I would hate to play them in the first round.

I am not worried about New York, Brooklyn, Indiana or the others. Boston matches up very well with him and I fully agree that Boston should be favored against each one of them in a playoff series.

I would really like to avoid Chicago.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 12:32:57 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17975
  • Tommy Points: 634
I would be worried about landing Chicago in the first round if Derrick Rose is back and is playing at even 80% of his normal level. That would be a seriously dangerous team. The Bulls are the most dangerous team in the East for Boston outside of Miami.

It looks like there is a fair shot both teams could end up at #4 and #5 or even if one struggles at #3 and #6. I would hate to play them in the first round.

I am not worried about New York, Brooklyn, Indiana or the others. Boston matches up very well with him and I fully agree that Boston should be favored against each one of them in a playoff series.

I would really like to avoid Chicago.

I'd be afraid of Chicago even without Rose.  They just are so tight defensively, and their two best defenders happen to match up best with the C's two best scorers.  The way Deng shuts down Pierce, it would be a really tough matchup.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 12:50:20 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6390
  • Tommy Points: 607
  • Intensity!!!
Chicago will be tough, but without rose can the Bulls maintain their winning? Thibs is known for running players into the ground and he is doing so with his main players right now.

I believe it catches up to them.

No guarantee Rose plays. Many of his people don't want him too. They don't want him to come back too soon and they don;t want his supporting cast to look better then they are.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), PHI(prot), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC, MIA

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 01:20:43 PM »

Offline blink

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1745
  • Tommy Points: 111
I think the 4 teams that are in the EC semifinals will be Miami, NYK, Chicago, Boston.  I honestly don't think the Nets have the winning mentality for the playoffs.  Atlanta is another team I am watching closely.  It seems the hawks got better through subtraction with Joe Johnson being moved.  But then again, they have yet to really get over the hump to become a true contender for the last few years. 

I have a bad feeling that we are going to need to go through both Chicago and Miami to get to the finals.  We got really lucky last year that we avoided Chicago.  The bulls seem to play at a higher level against us.  We match up really poorly with them.  Deng always seems to have the upper hand on PP.  We have trouble with the def pressure the bulls put on us.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 01:23:40 PM »

Offline Who

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30217
  • Tommy Points: 1260
Chicago will be tough, but without rose can the Bulls maintain their winning? Thibs is known for running players into the ground and he is doing so with his main players right now.

I believe it catches up to them.

No guarantee Rose plays. Many of his people don't want him too. They don't want him to come back too soon and they don;t want his supporting cast to look better then they are.

Chicago are one of the league's best defensive teams and best rebounding teams without Rose. Even with a poor offense, Chicago can continue to ride those strengths to a 45 win type season comfortably enough.

Chicago are only a little above that pace right now (14-10 W-L, 48 win pace), so yeah, I would say Chicago isn't far off where I would expect them to be and are capable of maintaining this pace.

And if Rose comes back in February/March and is able to play at a good level (not even superstar level), Chicago could go on a good run to end the season and finish with a 50-55 win type campaign.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 01:27:56 PM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6390
  • Tommy Points: 607
  • Intensity!!!
Chicago will be tough, but without rose can the Bulls maintain their winning? Thibs is known for running players into the ground and he is doing so with his main players right now.

I believe it catches up to them.

No guarantee Rose plays. Many of his people don't want him too. They don't want him to come back too soon and they don;t want his supporting cast to look better then they are.

Chicago are one of the league's best defensive teams and best rebounding teams without Rose. Even with a poor offense, Chicago can continue to ride those strengths to a 45 win type season comfortably enough.

Chicago are only a little above that pace right now (14-10 W-L, 48 win pace), so yeah, I would say Chicago isn't far off where I would expect them to be and are capable of maintaining this pace.

And if Rose comes back in February/March and is able to play at a good level (not even superstar level), Chicago could go on a good run to end the season and finish with a 50-55 win type campaign.

We will see. They would be a tough first round opponent but I still expect to beat them in the first round with HCA.

Having Gibson helps for when the eventual Boozer and/or Noah 10+ game injury occurs. They could win 45-48 games. But if they do then they will win their division and be the 4 seed. Which means as a 3 seed we won't play them anyway.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), PHI(prot), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC, MIA

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 01:32:24 PM »

Offline Who

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30217
  • Tommy Points: 1260
I think a lot of Brooklyn's struggles are down to bad coaching.

Their offensive system is terrible. It's amazing to me that Avery Johnson can't get more out of his players with the number of weapons they have.

They need to fire Avery and replace him with a high quality coach.

I agree that their offensive system is a mess and that Avery is not allowing them to play to their potential. But at the same time, I think the whole Nets team is overrated. Williams was overrated since his Utah days, Iso-Joe isnt very smart, Wallace is gritty but is loosing a step, Humphries does nothing for me, and Lopez isnt a top notch center.

I think New Jersey is still one player away from being a title contender. A Varejao type player. Someone who can reinforce that interior defense and make them a strong defensive club. Too weak defensively to compete for a title as currently built.

More of a mid-level type playoff team. Above the low seeds but not good enough to compete with the big boys. They won't go far in the playoffs.

Another big addition (interior defense) could change that though. They are not there (title contention) yet but the right addition could put them into the mix quickly enough. It will be interesting to see what type of value Kris Humphries has around the league.

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 02:20:24 AM »

Offline Kane3387

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6390
  • Tommy Points: 607
  • Intensity!!!
Chicago will be tough, but without rose can the Bulls maintain their winning? Thibs is known for running players into the ground and he is doing so with his main players right now.

I believe it catches up to them.

No guarantee Rose plays. Many of his people don't want him too. They don't want him to come back too soon and they don;t want his supporting cast to look better then they are.

Chicago are one of the league's best defensive teams and best rebounding teams without Rose. Even with a poor offense, Chicago can continue to ride those strengths to a 45 win type season comfortably enough.

Chicago are only a little above that pace right now (14-10 W-L, 48 win pace), so yeah, I would say Chicago isn't far off where I would expect them to be and are capable of maintaining this pace.

And if Rose comes back in February/March and is able to play at a good level (not even superstar level), Chicago could go on a good run to end the season and finish with a 50-55 win type campaign.

If this is the case then we won't see them in the first round. Likely in the second and at that point depending on how amare fits I'm not sure who I would rather play out of NY and Chicago in the semis.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), PHI(prot), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC, MIA

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 08:10:54 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10071
  • Tommy Points: 605
I think a lot of Brooklyn's struggles are down to bad coaching.

Their offensive system is terrible. It's amazing to me that Avery Johnson can't get more out of his players with the number of weapons they have.

They need to fire Avery and replace him with a high quality coach.

I agree that their offensive system is a mess and that Avery is not allowing them to play to their potential. But at the same time, I think the whole Nets team is overrated. Williams was overrated since his Utah days, Iso-Joe isnt very smart, Wallace is gritty but is loosing a step, Humphries does nothing for me, and Lopez isnt a top notch center.

I think New Jersey is still one player away from being a title contender. A Varejao type player. Someone who can reinforce that interior defense and make them a strong defensive club. Too weak defensively to compete for a title as currently built.

More of a mid-level type playoff team. Above the low seeds but not good enough to compete with the big boys. They won't go far in the playoffs.

Another big addition (interior defense) could change that though. They are not there (title contention) yet but the right addition could put them into the mix quickly enough. It will be interesting to see what type of value Kris Humphries has around the league.

Yeah I can agree with that. If they can trade either humphries or Lopez to get a better defensive big man then they might have things come together a little more. Like you said Im not sure what type of value Humphries has around the league but I would try to ship him off first to put a defensive PF in that line up. Aside from Wallace, they really dont have much defensive presence in the starting 5.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 08:15:06 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10340
  • Tommy Points: 2211
1.New York   19-6
2.Miami   16-6
3.Atlanta   15-8
4.Chicago   14-10
5.Milwaukee 13-11
6.Indiana   14-12
7.Brooklyn   13-12
8.Boston      13-12
9.Orlando   12-13
10.Philadelphia 12-14

The East has not shaped into the conference that a lot of people thought it would be. It is definitely the inferior conference, even with the Lakers being so poor.

I see hope for Boston.

Above is the top ten teams in the east currently. We are 8th and just two game out of 4th. The remaining 5 teams (Toronto, Washington, Charlotte, Detroit, and Cleveland) are all but done. Orlando will not last either. 9 teams competing for 8 spots and unless the injury big kills us we will be a playoff team. The only question is, what is our seed.

Injuries and their impact

Chicago, Indiana, and Philly are all suffering from injuries to arguably their best players. Philly is beginning to fade. They have lost 4 or 5 in a row. Depending on when Bynum comes back they might be the first round team no one wants to see. If Bynum doesn't come back then they will be lucky to make the post season. I believe he makes some type of return b/c too much money is on the line for this guy right now. What his impact will be I don't know, but they have the potential to be very good.

The same I can't say for Indiana and Chicago. I don't see Rose being Adrian Peterson. He is still expected to be out for a couple more months and I believe the minute the Bull's starters are playing will catch up with them. One more injury to a key player and they are in trouble. I see us catching them in the standings. Indiana I see us catch as well. Granger is still months away and outside of David West (playing great) they are very young. I believe we will catch them too. I don't see us matching up with either in the first round and both being eliminated in the first round.

Overperforming

Both Atlanta and Milwaukee are over performing. If Milwaukee could make a move for a big then they could be more legit. But when was the last time they were relevant? I see them coming down to earth. Hopefully it's shortly after an upcoming loss to Boston. I think we surpass them in the standings shortly. Atlanta is playing well too, but I don't see it lasting. Overall I think they lack the fire power to sustain this winning. I believe we surpass them as well. Assuming they stand pat I would love to play them in the first round.

New York Teams

Like Boston both teams have a ton of new faces. For NYC it's been about Melo and the three ball. They look good. But can Jason Kidd keep it up? He has been key to their greatness and is the reason I expect Amare and Melo to finally work. Amare is without a doubt the X factor. He gives them the second go to guy required to make long playoff runs. BUT if he comes back and hi and Melo can't play together then they aren't getting to ECF. Depending on threes and only having one superior talent can be great in the regular season but it won't work in the playoffs. Amare playing well would make NYC a tough out for Boston especially since they likely have HCA. Amare playing like last year makes NYC a good matchup for Boston and highly vulnerable to 2nd round upset.

Brooklyn has lost 4 in a row and 8 of its last 10. They're struggling mightily to finish games and a lot of this has to do with unfamiliarity amongst their top players. Deron looks overrated and him and Joe haven't formed the chemistry needed to advance deep in the playoffs. They have a lot of talent, but can they put it together this season in their first playoffs? Won't know until we get there but I like how we match up with them too. I think we finish ahead of them.

Miami

Beasts of the Easts. They will be there in the ECF.

Where I see the Celtics

In the end I expect us to finish third in the East. This assumes all teams are healthy. I think we battle NY in the semis. I think we defend the three well and I don't believe Amare and Carmelo play as well as they need to to win. I see AB and Rondo making life miserable for Kidd and Felton and we win in 6.

I then see us battling Miami and at that point - who knows?

Why?

The East lacks dominant teams with size. I think the Celtics will continue to be up and down but finish the last quarter of the season strong. Other then NY and Miami I believe all of the other teams will be up and down as well and bunched together. Boston play its best come playoff time and our best players have seen it all and will be prepared for anything. The rest of the team will follow their lead and we will be in Miami for game 1 of the ECF.
until the C's get their act together, they're a team that'll be on the cusp of missing the playoffs.  The teams you're dismissing are capable of playing .500 ball or maybe a tad better than that.  enough of them could do that and put the C's in the lottery.  Consider this, C's only really have 1 player out due to injury--Avery.  Sure he's a terrific defender and does ok on offense but that's the guy many here are pinning their hopes on for turning the season around.  pretty thin basis for optimism.  C's have always had someone go down with injury each of the past 4 years.  While it's not a guarantee to happen again, I find it extremely unlikely that this team will get through the season without losing a major player for a significant amount of time.  if/when that happens, this struggling team will continue to struggle if not outright sink (depending on who's injured)

Re: Just how strong is the East?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 08:23:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9401
  • Tommy Points: 410
I think a lot of Brooklyn's struggles are down to bad coaching.

Their offensive system is terrible. It's amazing to me that Avery Johnson can't get more out of his players with the number of weapons they have.

They need to fire Avery and replace him with a high quality coach.

I agree that their offensive system is a mess and that Avery is not allowing them to play to their potential. But at the same time, I think the whole Nets team is overrated. Williams was overrated since his Utah days, Iso-Joe isnt very smart, Wallace is gritty but is loosing a step, Humphries does nothing for me, and Lopez isnt a top notch center.

I think New Jersey is still one player away from being a title contender. A Varejao type player. Someone who can reinforce that interior defense and make them a strong defensive club. Too weak defensively to compete for a title as currently built.

More of a mid-level type playoff team. Above the low seeds but not good enough to compete with the big boys. They won't go far in the playoffs.

Another big addition (interior defense) could change that though. They are not there (title contention) yet but the right addition could put them into the mix quickly enough. It will be interesting to see what type of value Kris Humphries has around the league.
If NJ is then Boston certainly is.  NJ has more talent in its starting lineup then Boston does and enough playoff depth to be fine.

The reality is the East has always been Miami's to lose.  NY is playing well and seemingly could pose a real challenge, especially if they can transition Amare in and not take a step back from the chemistry standpoint.  Chicago with Rose could pose some trouble for Miami (though I still think Miami would win that series fairly easily).  Outside of those three teams no one is a real contender in the East and Boston will be in the middle of the playoff pack with teams like Indiana, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and New Jersey, which should be the 8 playoff teams in the conference.  Milwaukee could seemingly hang around and knock one of those teams out of the playoffs (which includes Boston), but I don't see Orlando having much staying power.

As for the premise of this thread, the East is weak, which is the only reason Boston might actually win a playoff series nonetheless even get into the playoffs.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog