Author Topic: C's see light move KG back to PF  (Read 2214 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2012, 11:24:52 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23082
  • Tommy Points: 1083
What the hell does chris Wilcox do better than Martin?

Wilcox is a great dunker within 2 feet of the rim. Might as well have Hollins(except Hollins was better defensively and a better agitator)

"There's a reason why he's still out there' yeah a stupid reason. There's a reason why Stiemsma was a bench player for Wisconsin and a perrenial D league player as well right?

Maybe Danny doesn't want him for some reason but its not for something stupidly vague like "no one else is interested"

  Nobody said that the reason Danny doesn't want Martin is that "no one else is interested". But you must admit that if someone like Martin can't latch on with *any* team that either his skills have eroded or he's too much trouble to deal with.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2012, 12:08:17 PM »

Online Who

  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31351
  • Tommy Points: 1326
I don't see what holds up a Jeff Green for Okafor swap once the trade restriction expires.  It makes no sense to me for Washington to want him. 

C. Lee + J. Green + Sullinger for M. Webster + Okafor

Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Webster
KG/Bass/Wilcox
Okafor/KG/Wilcox

I love that roster.

Ariza (another guy Wash should have no interest in holding onto) would have been the perfect guy to get from them for that Posey role, but the contracts make it difficult.

Well, Okafor looking completely cooked would hold it up a bit.

Could be wrong, but I think a lot of centers would look pretty cooked on that team.  How would Perk look on that team?  How would Tyson Chandler even look on that team?  I'm not looking for the stars and moon here (we aren't getting that for Jeff Green), I'm looking for a role player - a defensive minded center.  Those aren't very easy to pry away from teams as you can see by the Cavs reported unwillingness to part with Varejao.


This is true, but he has looked pretty bad for a few years now.  He still puts up some numbers, but they have been getting more and more empty each year. 

He would be a guy that would be an interesting get on a cheap contract, but they would have to send out at least 2 rotation players to even match his salary, which makes it a no go in my book.  If we want a washed up, undersized center, Kenyon Martin is cheaper.

I think Okafor has more up and down than finished. One year, he plays very well. The next, he is terrible. Then he plays well again. Then mediocre. Now bad again.

I have no idea what to expect from him. I think there is still some ability there but I don't trust him to perform. He is too unreliable.

That said, if there are not better options available, I am happy to roll the dice on Okafor. You can't get much better a situation than Boston with players like Rondo and Garnett alongside him. Worthy risk.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2012, 09:11:23 AM »

Offline Texstyles

  • Marcus Smart
  • Posts: 387
  • Tommy Points: 41
Sorry guys I was not around yest. to respond to this post.  I was not taking a shot at KG's play at Center at all with this post. When I said get a real Center, I meant that as to play along side him. I think he is great at both positions, I just like the floating around KG better then the battling in the post KG on the Def. end. Getting a more Def. PF and leave KG at Center would also work but I liked him at PF better

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2012, 09:41:10 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17983
  • Tommy Points: 636
Sorry guys I was not around yest. to respond to this post.  I was not taking a shot at KG's play at Center at all with this post. When I said get a real Center, I meant that as to play along side him. I think he is great at both positions, I just like the floating around KG better then the battling in the post KG on the Def. end. Getting a more Def. PF and leave KG at Center would also work but I liked him at PF better

Defensively, I agree.  I like KG being able to be the guy working the pick and rolls on the perimeter, while you have another stout defender down low.

However, offensively, I think KG is MUCH more effective against centers.  His post game has all but disappeared, as he no longer has the lift that he used to, or the quickness to compete with the athletic 4s in the league, and can't make the smaller guys pay like he used to in the post.  But, when he has a big man on him, he can use that 15 foot jumper (which has become like a layup to him), or take them off the dribble/beat them to the hoop on a pick and roll, because he may not be as quick as the 4s anymore, but he is still quicker than most 5s. 

Its a give and take. 

This is why it ultimately comes down to talent in my mind.  If you put him with real starting talent, whether they are a 4 or a 5, KG is going to have an advantage on at least one end of the floor.  But, when you put him with mediocre players, then the other team can just cross match him, forcing him to cover their best scorer, while putting their best defender on him.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM »

Offline LB3533

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3985
  • Tommy Points: 307
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:19 AM »

Offline ctrey

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 614
  • Tommy Points: 101
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2012, 10:18:12 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17983
  • Tommy Points: 636
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2012, 10:41:31 AM »

Offline LB3533

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3985
  • Tommy Points: 307
However, if Collins or Wilcox continue to start at Center, there is a chance this can mitigate our poor perimeter defense.

Mitigate meaning we have another bigger body to clog up the paint. Now will this stop the easy baskets?? Probably not every time, but at least this way opponents won't be waltzing into the paint uncontested nearly every trip down.

I am not in favor of starting Collins, by the way. Maybe Wilcox.

I have no problem with KG at Center, I think that is his best position right now in his career and in today's NBA climate where dominating Centers are an extinct breed.

But if our perimeter D can pick up the slack, this would reduce the need for secondary or 3rd line defense to always need to step up/rotate to guard the rim.

And it might be a time to tinker with the way we defend the pick and roll.

Maybe we should switch more or try to fight harder through the picks?

For some reason, the majority of our Celtics are not yet in tune with the rotating schemes on the pick and roll defense.


Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2012, 11:49:37 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23082
  • Tommy Points: 1083
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2012, 12:18:59 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17983
  • Tommy Points: 636
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.

Absolutely.  But the tailspin isn't over until they win 3, 4, 5 in a row.

But you can't do that, if you don't win the first one.

I think Danny was pretty honest on the radio the other day, when he said he doesn't expect them to completely pull out of it for at least a few more weeks based on what he has seen.  It is a work in progress, and they are trying to find their identity. 

I think at some point, it is going to click.  Now, that doesn't mean they are going to suddenly be challenging the Heat, but they should be better than they are now. 

Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2012, 12:28:25 PM »

Offline esel1000

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2960
  • Tommy Points: 130
Won the Cleveland game due to Pierce's career game?

Less to do with whomever is starting at Center. If Pierce had 17 points like he did down in Texas, we'd lost to a 5 win Cavs team without their 2nd best player.

Bingo. This poster got it dead on. Without Pierce having his highest scoring game since the 05-06 season, we would have lost to the FIVE WIN CAVS. If Varejao played in this game, we may not have one anyway. This team is adrift right now and is going nowhere.

Yes, they need to right the ship, and Wednesday night was not an example of it.  Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

  Wednesday was a step in the right direction though. They could use a little positive momentum.

Absolutely.  But the tailspin isn't over until they win 3, 4, 5 in a row.

But you can't do that, if you don't win the first one.

I think Danny was pretty honest on the radio the other day, when he said he doesn't expect them to completely pull out of it for at least a few more weeks based on what he has seen.  It is a work in progress, and they are trying to find their identity. 

I think at some point, it is going to click.  Now, that doesn't mean they are going to suddenly be challenging the Heat, but they should be better than they are now.

I agree with you and think they'll get there, I just don't get why it takes this long for us...

I mean look at the Knicks, they have a ton of new pieces are are constantly making line up changes. I mean they have Melo to lead them, but we have Rondo...

Spurs have a similar roster (though Splitter gives them the edge) yet their record is much better and they play much more consistently.

Honestly for the first 10-15 games I used this as a reason because it is legit for a team that has a lot of new pieces, but now it just looks bad. Now it looks like they've gone from good team that needs time to .500 team 25 games in. Nobody expected it to take this long for the roster to gel or else we wouldn't have been happy with these moves in the offseason and DA would have done things differently. I feel like there's no excuse at this point. Bradley back and getting some sort of rebounding center (like Hickson or Gortat) to pair kg and sully up with would help but this team has done some head shaking things that simply should not happen with a roster like this. DA basically listed them out...


Re: C's see light move KG back to PF
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2012, 10:17:31 AM »

Online mgent

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6202
  • Tommy Points: 740
KG doesn't block a lot of shots anymore but he sure as hell protects the rim.
Even when KG was playing 40 minutes a game and was the second best defender in the history of the league, he didn't block a lot of shots, especially relative to other elite defenders.

Yeah, he's capable of protecting the rim, but that's clearly not what his body was built to do, thus why he said he's 6'11" and chose PF.  He admits those guys are bigger than him and doesn't want to play that physical game.

He's an agitator.  He wants to run around, take up tons of space out on the perimeter, and never even let the team get IN the paint while a much bigger guy like Perk is behind him. 

Perkins and JO were our last lines of defense, blocking more shots than KG, and giving the hard, rough fouls at the rim.  Even Stiemsma allowed KG to do what he does best.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog