Author Topic: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?  (Read 1601 times)

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Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 10:46:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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There's a weird statistical anomaly, according to 82games.com

The offense is only +0.3 points per 100 possessions better with Rondo in the game

The defense is actually 2.5 points per 100 possessions worse with Rondo in the game

Overall, the Celtics are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better *without* Rondo

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM#onoff
Yeah I've been noticing it for a while.  When Rondo misses games, we tend to win.  It's usually because someone like Pierce steps up.  Interesting stats.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 11:02:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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There's a weird statistical anomaly, according to 82games.com

The offense is only +0.3 points per 100 possessions better with Rondo in the game

The defense is actually 2.5 points per 100 possessions worse with Rondo in the game

Overall, the Celtics are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better *without* Rondo

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM#onoff
Yeah I've been noticing it for a while.  When Rondo misses games, we tend to win.  It's usually because someone like Pierce steps up.  Interesting stats.

  We're 1-2 without Rondo this year and last year we were, what, 8-6 or so? All the times you've claimed we usually win without Rondo hasn't had an impact on our fairly mediocre record without him.


Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 12:18:49 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Bump to point out how noisy on/off court numbers are, basketball reference updated their numbers and after two more games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/on-off/2013/#on-off::none

Rondo's back to being +3.1 ORTG better on court for offense and somewhat steady at 2.6 DRTG worse when he's on the court as well.

48 minutes of basketball can swing things pretty solidly. This is why +/- and adjusted +/- needs thousands of minutes for a reasonable sample size.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 12:28:27 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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There's a weird statistical anomaly, according to 82games.com

The offense is only +0.3 points per 100 possessions better with Rondo in the game

The defense is actually 2.5 points per 100 possessions worse with Rondo in the game

Overall, the Celtics are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better *without* Rondo

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM#onoff
Yeah I've been noticing it for a while.  When Rondo misses games, we tend to win.  It's usually because someone like Pierce steps up.  Interesting stats.

I noticed that TOO last year.  Rondo is either a HUGE asset /all star  or he is a liability ( when his mind wanders and he is disinterested) distracted, or what ever planet he travels when he seems to blank out on the team.

Rondo DOES reappear at playoffs ...so I think its 100% mental ... Guys like Kobe and CP3 hate losing ANY game , and play each game like it makes a difference.

Rondo plays TOO much. I'm hoping his minutes go way down when AB comes back.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 05:29:19 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I guess I don't see how there is ambiguity in the on court off court numbers.  For the season, the team is -9 points with Rondo on the floor.  Per 48 that is -0.6.  This is a very slight negative but essentially, it doesn't seem to make a difference whether he is on the floor or not.

If you go down through the 5 man units, most of the units where Rondo is out there with KG are strongly positive and most of the units where Rondo doesn't have KG out there are negative.  KG overall is +90 and Pierce is +27.

What does this mean?  It means that Rondo is a good player with holes in his game.  I think it also it suggests he is inconsistent in his contribution to the team.  Flashy assists in one game (or part of a game) and turnovers, missed shots, and porous defense the next.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 06:15:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I guess I don't see how there is ambiguity in the on court off court numbers.  For the season, the team is -9 points with Rondo on the floor.  Per 48 that is -0.6.  This is a very slight negative but essentially, it doesn't seem to make a difference whether he is on the floor or not.

If you go down through the 5 man units, most of the units where Rondo is out there with KG are strongly positive and most of the units where Rondo doesn't have KG out there are negative.  KG overall is +90 and Pierce is +27.

What does this mean?  It means that Rondo is a good player with holes in his game.  I think it also it suggests he is inconsistent in his contribution to the team.  Flashy assists in one game (or part of a game) and turnovers, missed shots, and porous defense the next.

  So does that also mean that the 50 or so players with better on/off numbers than LeBron have fewer holes in their games than he does and that they're more consistent than he is?

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 06:35:45 PM »

Offline mctyson

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There's a weird statistical anomaly, according to 82games.com

The offense is only +0.3 points per 100 possessions better with Rondo in the game

The defense is actually 2.5 points per 100 possessions worse with Rondo in the game

Overall, the Celtics are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better *without* Rondo

http://www.82games.com/1213/12BOS1.HTM#onoff

I believe the defense part, but it's too small a sample to judge off of.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 06:49:18 PM »

Offline snively

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I don't think it helps Rondo's defensive +/- cause that almost every minute he isn't on the floor, KG is (thanks to the 5/5/5 plan).
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Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 07:06:02 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I don't think it helps Rondo's defensive +/- cause that almost every minute he isn't on the floor, KG is (thanks to the 5/5/5 plan).

  If KG's on his 5-5-5 plan he'd probably do about 7-8 minutes without Rondo and 22-23 minutes with Rondo. That means, from the flip side, that Rondo's playing 22-23 minutes a game with KG and about 15 without him. Those 15 or so minutes a game where our bigs are 2 of Wilcox/Bass/Sully really don't help Rondo's plus minus numbers, and they also have a lot to do with his defensive +/- numbers.

Re: Do we play as good with out Rondo on the floor?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 07:16:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I guess I don't see how there is ambiguity in the on court off court numbers.  For the season, the team is -9 points with Rondo on the floor.  Per 48 that is -0.6.  This is a very slight negative but essentially, it doesn't seem to make a difference whether he is on the floor or not.

If you go down through the 5 man units, most of the units where Rondo is out there with KG are strongly positive and most of the units where Rondo doesn't have KG out there are negative.  KG overall is +90 and Pierce is +27.

What does this mean?  It means that Rondo is a good player with holes in his game.  I think it also it suggests he is inconsistent in his contribution to the team.  Flashy assists in one game (or part of a game) and turnovers, missed shots, and porous defense the next.

  deleted

 

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