Author Topic: Time for Doc to go.  (Read 17729 times)

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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #180 on: January 23, 2013, 11:07:43 AM »

Online Donoghus

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Most of this lies with the players, not the coach.

Lots of underachieving on the floor right now.


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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #181 on: January 23, 2013, 11:11:50 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Who going to replace him?? Phil jackson?? I say we keep him cause look at his past record with the Celtics. he knows this team better than anyone. He just dont have a legit big man!

rofl. like he would use a big man if he did have one. he does not use two dribble drivers correctly in green and the blur.

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #182 on: January 23, 2013, 11:12:58 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Most of this lies with the players, not the coach.

Lots of underachieving on the floor right now.

disagree with point #1 and i agree with point #2. both are to blame.

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #183 on: January 23, 2013, 11:18:48 AM »

Offline MBunge

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You threaten to get rid of guys because your roster stinks. Shuffling one underperforming player in for another will not change anything, and the players who actually do perform cannot play multiple positions at the same time.

A trade is imminent at this point, as soon as we find someone to take our junk, since it's quite evident that the pieces that we have are unable or unwilling to play their roles the way they should.

Last night...

Jeff Green, +7, 20 minutes.
Courtney Lee, +1, 14 minutes.
Jason Terry, +4, 20 minutes.
Kevin Garnett, -1, 31 minutes.
Jared Sullinger -4, 26 minutes.
Avery Bradley, -5, 26 minutes.
Brandon Bass, -7, 28 minutes.
Paul Pierce, -8, 37 minutes.
Rajon Rondo, -10, 39 minutes.
Chris Wilcox - DNP.
Leandro Barbosa - DNP.
Jason Collins - DNP.

KG is on firm limits and Sully had foul trouble, but tell me who from that list stinks and is underperforming and how that relates to their playing time.  And what exactly is Doc Rivers getting paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to do if he can't win unless he's got the bestest players who ever lived on his team?

Some of the folks around here would slit the throats of their own children if Doc told them to, because he can't ever be wrong about anything...can he?

Mike

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #184 on: January 23, 2013, 11:19:02 AM »

Offline Chris

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Most of this lies with the players, not the coach.

Lots of underachieving on the floor right now.

I agree.  That's not to say Doc doesn't deserve some blame.  He is the coach, and this team is falling apart on his watch.  But ultimately, the players need to focus.

The thing is though, even if Doc did deserve to be fired, based on the current short leash that we see in sports in general, that completely goes against the C's overall philosophy.

They have built this team on patience.  Danny has consistently been incredibly patient and methodical with the way he builds the team, and Doc has followed suit by being very patient and methodical in his coaching.  They let things play out.  They wait for the right opportunity to present itself, and are prepared to act, but they rarely jump the gun.

Firing Doc at this point would be jumping the gun.  Not only would it be just creating a martyr in Rivers, but it would also be cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

Rivers has his issues.  He is not a perfect coach.  But be careful what you wish for.  When you look at the whole package, and take into account his recruiting and interpersonal skills, along with his organization and general respect around the league, you will find that he would not be easy to replace. 

This team needs a culture change.  But I think the first place to look will be the roster, and go from there.

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #185 on: January 23, 2013, 11:23:36 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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You threaten to get rid of guys because your roster stinks. Shuffling one underperforming player in for another will not change anything, and the players who actually do perform cannot play multiple positions at the same time.

A trade is imminent at this point, as soon as we find someone to take our junk, since it's quite evident that the pieces that we have are unable or unwilling to play their roles the way they should.

Last night...

Jeff Green, +7, 20 minutes.
Courtney Lee, +1, 14 minutes.
Jason Terry, +4, 20 minutes.
Kevin Garnett, -1, 31 minutes.
Jared Sullinger -4, 26 minutes.
Avery Bradley, -5, 26 minutes.
Brandon Bass, -7, 28 minutes.
Paul Pierce, -8, 37 minutes.
Rajon Rondo, -10, 39 minutes.
Chris Wilcox - DNP.
Leandro Barbosa - DNP.
Jason Collins - DNP.

KG is on firm limits and Sully had foul trouble, but tell me who from that list stinks and is underperforming and how that relates to their playing time.  And what exactly is Doc Rivers getting paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to do if he can't win unless he's got the bestest players who ever lived on his team?

Some of the folks around here would slit the throats of their own children if Doc told them to, because he can't ever be wrong about anything...can he?

Mike

I have no idea what your listing of the minutes for the Celtics players in last night's game is supposed to prove.  Who should have played more?  Who should have played less?  I'm curious.
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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #186 on: January 23, 2013, 11:30:34 AM »

Online Donoghus

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Most of this lies with the players, not the coach.

Lots of underachieving on the floor right now.

I agree.  That's not to say Doc doesn't deserve some blame.  He is the coach, and this team is falling apart on his watch.  But ultimately, the players need to focus.

The thing is though, even if Doc did deserve to be fired, based on the current short leash that we see in sports in general, that completely goes against the C's overall philosophy.

They have built this team on patience.  Danny has consistently been incredibly patient and methodical with the way he builds the team, and Doc has followed suit by being very patient and methodical in his coaching.  They let things play out.  They wait for the right opportunity to present itself, and are prepared to act, but they rarely jump the gun.

Firing Doc at this point would be jumping the gun.  Not only would it be just creating a martyr in Rivers, but it would also be cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

Rivers has his issues.  He is not a perfect coach.  But be careful what you wish for.  When you look at the whole package, and take into account his recruiting and interpersonal skills, along with his organization and general respect around the league, you will find that he would not be easy to replace. 

This team needs a culture change.  But I think the first place to look will be the roster, and go from there.

I think this nails a lot of it.


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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #187 on: January 23, 2013, 11:31:22 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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You threaten to get rid of guys because your roster stinks. Shuffling one underperforming player in for another will not change anything, and the players who actually do perform cannot play multiple positions at the same time.

A trade is imminent at this point, as soon as we find someone to take our junk, since it's quite evident that the pieces that we have are unable or unwilling to play their roles the way they should.

Last night...

Jeff Green, +7, 20 minutes.
Courtney Lee, +1, 14 minutes.
Jason Terry, +4, 20 minutes.
Kevin Garnett, -1, 31 minutes.
Jared Sullinger -4, 26 minutes.
Avery Bradley, -5, 26 minutes.
Brandon Bass, -7, 28 minutes.
Paul Pierce, -8, 37 minutes.
Rajon Rondo, -10, 39 minutes.
Chris Wilcox - DNP.
Leandro Barbosa - DNP.
Jason Collins - DNP.

KG is on firm limits and Sully had foul trouble, but tell me who from that list stinks and is underperforming and how that relates to their playing time.  And what exactly is Doc Rivers getting paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to do if he can't win unless he's got the bestest players who ever lived on his team?

Some of the folks around here would slit the throats of their own children if Doc told them to, because he can't ever be wrong about anything...can he?
Yes, and you forgot to mention that Collins is horrible and Wilcox is injured, so Bass has, technically, no alternative because Sullinger already plays as much as he can before fouling out.

So a large amount of your roster is locked into their time slots pretty much regardless of how they play -- although you seem to patently ignore this is a possibility.

So of the remaining players, Terry is underperforming to the point to which he's turned into Leandro Barbosa #2. Do you think we brought him in to give us next to nothing in 20 minutes? You think that swapping him for Barbosa #1 will do us any good?

So what is Doc supposed to do then? Bench Bass and Terry because they are underperforming, and field Barbosa and Collins who are inferior players and will give you inferior production even at their best? Any other brilliant ideas?
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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #188 on: January 23, 2013, 11:45:30 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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This team needs a culture change.  But I think the first place to look will be the roster, and go from there.

I think this nails a lot of it.

Absolutely.

Here's the problem.  Team culture is generally determined by the players at the top of the roster. 

It's hard for me to believe we're going to really change the culture on the team without drastically altering the core of the team.

At the very least I think guys we expected to play a very large role like Terry and Green absolutely have to go.  The problem is neither of those guys has particularly movable contracts.  To trade them we'll have to move them just for the sake of moving them, basically.
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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #189 on: January 23, 2013, 12:13:01 PM »

Offline MBunge

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You threaten to get rid of guys because your roster stinks. Shuffling one underperforming player in for another will not change anything, and the players who actually do perform cannot play multiple positions at the same time.

A trade is imminent at this point, as soon as we find someone to take our junk, since it's quite evident that the pieces that we have are unable or unwilling to play their roles the way they should.

Last night...

Jeff Green, +7, 20 minutes.
Courtney Lee, +1, 14 minutes.
Jason Terry, +4, 20 minutes.
Kevin Garnett, -1, 31 minutes.
Jared Sullinger -4, 26 minutes.
Avery Bradley, -5, 26 minutes.
Brandon Bass, -7, 28 minutes.
Paul Pierce, -8, 37 minutes.
Rajon Rondo, -10, 39 minutes.
Chris Wilcox - DNP.
Leandro Barbosa - DNP.
Jason Collins - DNP.

KG is on firm limits and Sully had foul trouble, but tell me who from that list stinks and is underperforming and how that relates to their playing time.  And what exactly is Doc Rivers getting paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to do if he can't win unless he's got the bestest players who ever lived on his team?

Some of the folks around here would slit the throats of their own children if Doc told them to, because he can't ever be wrong about anything...can he?
Yes, and you forgot to mention that Collins is horrible and Wilcox is injured, so Bass has, technically, no alternative because Sullinger already plays as much as he can before fouling out.

So a large amount of your roster is locked into their time slots pretty much regardless of how they play -- although you seem to patently ignore this is a possibility.

So of the remaining players, Terry is underperforming to the point to which he's turned into Leandro Barbosa #2. Do you think we brought him in to give us next to nothing in 20 minutes? You think that swapping him for Barbosa #1 will do us any good?

So what is Doc supposed to do then? Bench Bass and Terry because they are underperforming, and field Barbosa and Collins who are inferior players and will give you inferior production even at their best? Any other brilliant ideas?

If Collins is horrible, than why did the Holy Doc have him in as a starter?  And what kind of a moron continues to play someone, no matter how bad they actually perform, because of how good they're supposed to be?

Barbosa has only gotten to play more than 15 minutes in 4 games this season.  In those games, he went 3-5 for 9 points, 3-6 for 8 points, 5-11 for 17 points and 6-8 for 16 points.  That's at least comparable production to what Terry has been giving us.  Would he consistently be better than Terry?  I don't know, but Barbosa is a veteran player and Terry has just looked terrible at times, so I can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't at least try Barbosa out and see what happens.

Oh, wait.  There is a reason.  If you think Doc Rivers is God Himself and is incapable of ever making a mistake.

And Doc has played Green before at the 4 and loves playing small in general, so there is an option to simply playing Bass no matter how much he sucks.

I'm not sure why I bother responding to you because it's clear that Doc could take a dump on your face and you'd just ask for another load.

Mike

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #190 on: January 23, 2013, 12:25:13 PM »

Offline eugen

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I do not think is time to get rid of Doc. Cs has to make a rebuild of the team...

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #191 on: January 23, 2013, 12:36:11 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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Nope...... It might be time for Danny, Doc, and all of the players to go and for Wyc to sell the team to Gary Hansen so the Celtics become the Sonics and I can Coach, GM and Belichick the new Sonics team.  ;D
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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #192 on: January 23, 2013, 12:41:37 PM »

Offline Chris

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This team needs a culture change.  But I think the first place to look will be the roster, and go from there.

I think this nails a lot of it.

Absolutely.

Here's the problem.  Team culture is generally determined by the players at the top of the roster. 

It's hard for me to believe we're going to really change the culture on the team without drastically altering the core of the team.

At the very least I think guys we expected to play a very large role like Terry and Green absolutely have to go.  The problem is neither of those guys has particularly movable contracts.  To trade them we'll have to move them just for the sake of moving them, basically.

You are absolutely right.  The problem is at the top of the roster.  Although you may also be right that the lesser guys might be the ones who take the fall, just because its easier to move guys like that.

But I really think this team will not get back on track, until they sort out the clash of styles and leadership at the top of the roster. 

Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #193 on: January 23, 2013, 01:19:30 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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If Collins is horrible, than why did the Holy Doc have him in as a starter?  And what kind of a moron continues to play someone, no matter how bad they actually perform, because of how good they're supposed to be?
So, you want Doc to try anything to win, and then you'll blast him for trying everything. Yes, that surely makes a lot of sense.

And the "kind of moron continues to play someone" is the type of moron who doesn't have anyone else on the roster - a fact that, once again, you patently refuse to recognize.

Would he consistently be better than Terry?  I don't know
It's ok. The rest of us do.

Oh, wait.  There is a reason.  If you think Doc Rivers is God Himself and is incapable of ever making a mistake.
No, the reason is that you seem to have no idea what you're talking about. But that's ok, too.

And Doc has played Green before at the 4 and loves playing small in general, so there is an option to simply playing Bass no matter how much he sucks.
And then Green had his chest cut open, missed a full year, and lost, I don't know, 10+ lbs in the process? I'm amazed he can play the backup 3 in the NBA for 25 minutes as is, and surely don't think it's a good idea to put him out there to have players 30-40 lbs heavier bounce off of him.

And that's before we toss into the equation the fact that he wasn't a particularly good full-time PF even before the surgery.

I'm not sure why I bother responding to you because it's clear that Doc could take a dump on your face and you'd just ask for another load.
I'm not sure why you bother responding to anyone, but that's just me.
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Re: Time for Doc to go.
« Reply #194 on: January 24, 2013, 12:35:51 AM »

Offline kgainez

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You threaten to get rid of guys because your roster stinks. Shuffling one underperforming player in for another will not change anything, and the players who actually do perform cannot play multiple positions at the same time.

A trade is imminent at this point, as soon as we find someone to take our junk, since it's quite evident that the pieces that we have are unable or unwilling to play their roles the way they should.

Last night...

Jeff Green, +7, 20 minutes.
Courtney Lee, +1, 14 minutes.
Jason Terry, +4, 20 minutes.
Kevin Garnett, -1, 31 minutes.
Jared Sullinger -4, 26 minutes.
Avery Bradley, -5, 26 minutes.
Brandon Bass, -7, 28 minutes.
Paul Pierce, -8, 37 minutes.
Rajon Rondo, -10, 39 minutes.
Chris Wilcox - DNP.
Leandro Barbosa - DNP.
Jason Collins - DNP.

KG is on firm limits and Sully had foul trouble, but tell me who from that list stinks and is underperforming and how that relates to their playing time.  And what exactly is Doc Rivers getting paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to do if he can't win unless he's got the bestest players who ever lived on his team?

Some of the folks around here would slit the throats of their own children if Doc told them to, because he can't ever be wrong about anything...can he?

Mike

Hey, Mike...they don't want to hear this as it's too obvious LOL

Let me go on record to say, I don't think Doc should be fired. He just has the pieces but doesn't know **** to do with them.

And someone said Terry is sucking. And that's true. But that's not to say the line up with Jet/Lee/Green/Sully/KG are either our first or second best line up. I understand it's against the rules to play this line up to start...but this line up DOES things because the floor is truly spaced.

You know JET's confidence never wanders. He can hit the 3. Lee can hit the 3 and cut to the basket. Green can hit the 3 and post up. Sully has a jumper (that many do not respect) and is a BEAST on the boards. KG is your stretch 5....not many other line ups have this. oh...and it's unselfish and it's not fancy.

It just makes too much sense for Doc to play this more.

 

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