Author Topic: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?  (Read 3295 times)

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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2012, 06:41:21 PM »

Offline snively

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

Knowing now that Barbosa was available for the minimum, I would have retained the MLE and split it between Pietrus and Stiemsma instead of spending it on Terry.  Wouldn't have bothered with the Lee trade.

We were kind of stuck with Green though. We needed a combo forward and his agent took us for everything he could get.  Would have preferred a Bass sign and trade too, for someone on a shorter deal.

That way we'd have role players on expirings/short-term deals heading into the deadline.  Oh well. 
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2012, 06:39:19 AM »

Online Moranis

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2012, 06:40:12 AM »

Online Moranis

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started
I said the players this year were playing at essentially the rate they were last year.  I never said it was more or better talent or a better team.  Bringing in a bunch of role players doesn't make your team better.  It may make it deeper just not better.

Last year was a fluke and a result of key injuries to great players (like Rose, Horford, and Bosh).  If Horford was healthy there is a good chance Boston loses to Atlanta (that series was vastly different the couple of hobbled games he played).  Same thing with Rose and Chicago.  I don't think Boston gets by Chicago with Rose and as is barely survived 8th seed Philadelphia.  Once Miami got Bosh back that series was over.  A fully healthy Bosh and it is a 5 game series.  Boston wasn't a real contender but had a deep playoff run because of other teams misfortunes.  That run tricked a lot of fans into believe Boston was closer to a title than it was.  The reality is Boston is a long way away from a title and the past off season made it even farther away because it took away all short term flexibility.  Boston has no real way to get better this summer either and is stuck with this team for awhile.

I'm sorry, but saying that the success of a team that has won one title, two conference titles, and been conferences finalists three times over a five year span is a fluke, well, that's ridiculous.
I didn't say that at all.  Good job on the reading comprehension.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2012, 07:59:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.

  So you're pushing for an indeterminate amount of time in the lottery? Awesome.

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2012, 08:31:48 AM »

Online Moranis

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.

  So you're pushing for an indeterminate amount of time in the lottery? Awesome.
Not at all.  I would have signed everyone to 1 year deals and made another free agent run after this season.  I was pretty clear in what I would have done in this thread and throughout threads on this board.  Don't put words in my mouth and make crap up because you are too lazy to read my posts.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2012, 08:56:17 AM »

Offline Chris

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.

  So you're pushing for an indeterminate amount of time in the lottery? Awesome.
Not at all.  I would have signed everyone to 1 year deals and made another free agent run after this season.  I was pretty clear in what I would have done in this thread and throughout threads on this board.  Don't put words in my mouth and make crap up because you are too lazy to read my posts.

I would have loved that, but thats easier said than done.  If Danny had held firm at 1 year deals, I think we would be fighting for lottery balls right now, because we wouldn't have been able to sign most of the guys we did.

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2012, 09:07:44 AM »

Online Moranis

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.

  So you're pushing for an indeterminate amount of time in the lottery? Awesome.
Not at all.  I would have signed everyone to 1 year deals and made another free agent run after this season.  I was pretty clear in what I would have done in this thread and throughout threads on this board.  Don't put words in my mouth and make crap up because you are too lazy to read my posts.

I would have loved that, but thats easier said than done.  If Danny had held firm at 1 year deals, I think we would be fighting for lottery balls right now, because we wouldn't have been able to sign most of the guys we did.
We are fighting for lottery balls right now as is, though (Boston is the 8th seed and just 1 game ahead of 9).  I think KG and Green probably would have signed 1 year deals for the right dollars.  Guys like Bass, Terry, and Lee are easily replaceable pieces and wouldn't have been any great loss (you know Barbosa, Pietrus, Birdman, and K-Mart would have all been fine replacements and all likely could have been had for less money and less years). 
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2012, 09:13:47 AM »

Offline BballTim

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?
The Big 3 wouldn't have been on the books, just Pierce and Rondo, both of which expire in another year.

  So you're pushing for an indeterminate amount of time in the lottery? Awesome.
Not at all.  I would have signed everyone to 1 year deals and made another free agent run after this season.  I was pretty clear in what I would have done in this thread and throughout threads on this board.  Don't put words in my mouth and make crap up because you are too lazy to read my posts.

  Ok, going back and reading a couple of your posts, your "plan" was to offer the players contracts that we have no reason to believe that they would have accepted. What if KG doesn't want a one year deal? You've got Rondo, Pierce and no good big man, so that's probably either a 7-8 seed or a late lottery pick. What if KG signs but Bass and Green both leave? You've got a pretty high payroll but not enough depth to be solid contenders.

  This year was kind of an "in for a penny, in for a pound" off-season. If you don't sign KG you really need to unload PP and rebuild. If you keep KG you can't really let Bass and Green walk because you don't have the means to replace them and Ray. And there's no evidence that any of those three players (especially Bass and Green) would have signed for short deals.

 

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