Author Topic: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?  (Read 9387 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2012, 04:13:09 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Tommy Points: 420
Quote
I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I dont expect Green to really break out. But when he does take over for Pierce and starts playing big minutes i expect at least what he is doing now just more consistency.

His current averages projected out to 38min would be 16pts 5 rb and he is shooting 38% from 3. These numbers and improved perimeter D I my hopes for jeff.
Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2012, 04:17:02 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started
I said the players this year were playing at essentially the rate they were last year.  I never said it was more or better talent or a better team.  Bringing in a bunch of role players doesn't make your team better.  It may make it deeper just not better.

Last year was a fluke and a result of key injuries to great players (like Rose, Horford, and Bosh).  If Horford was healthy there is a good chance Boston loses to Atlanta (that series was vastly different the couple of hobbled games he played).  Same thing with Rose and Chicago.  I don't think Boston gets by Chicago with Rose and as is barely survived 8th seed Philadelphia.  Once Miami got Bosh back that series was over.  A fully healthy Bosh and it is a 5 game series.  Boston wasn't a real contender but had a deep playoff run because of other teams misfortunes.  That run tricked a lot of fans into believe Boston was closer to a title than it was.  The reality is Boston is a long way away from a title and the past off season made it even farther away because it took away all short term flexibility.  Boston has no real way to get better this summer either and is stuck with this team for awhile.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2012, 04:18:17 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533

If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2012, 04:19:16 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2012, 04:20:39 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron.

While I agree with this, the player he was his whole career would still make this team much better IMO, and is probably not too far off from a $9 million per year player in todays NBA. 

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2012, 04:38:08 PM »

Offline jyyzzoel

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 410
  • Tommy Points: 47
Again, it is fine to say you are disappointed in him, but what EXACTLY would you have done differently this offseason?

We had basically no cap space.  We acquired Jason Terry and Courtney Lee (moves almost everybody approved of at the time) using a mid-level exception and a sign-and-trade.

All the other signings were for own guys that allowed us to go over the cap.  If you want to argue letting Bass go, then fine.  If you want to argue letting Jeff Green go, then fine.  Please explain how we add equal or better players with the limited cap space we had. 

If you want to argue about the additions he made versus some other options (Jamal Crawford, or Ray) then fine.  Please explain how Jamal Crawford dramatically alters the season thus far.

Danny added a play-now rookie in Sullinger with a pick in the early 20's.  Maybe he could have added another play-now guy with the other pick instead of Melo. If you want to argue that, then fine.  Explain what other rookie would have made a major difference that was selected after 21.

Even argue the Ray situation.  Maybe losing Ray - and his knowledge of the team - was a bigger loss than we all thought at the time.  Please explain how we could have avoided Ray going to Miami, when we offered him a contract, and he rejected it for less money.

My point with all of this is:  if you are disappointed, please explain what Danny could have done that would have you otherwise not disappointed.  If your sole disappointment comes from paying Jeff Green $9M per vs. whatever you magically think he would have accepted, then you are using him for a scapegoat for your true disappointment...

The play of the team, which is built on Rondo, KG, and Pierce.

off the top of my head i would have signed kirilenko instead of green - they are on similar money and kirilenko is playing out of his mind - which was absolutely foreseeable.

i sign matt barnes. very underated.

i trade paul pierce. i would have back then, even before all of this, but you prob wont believe me. i trade him to utah for paul milsap and kanter. if that doesnt work, i trade pierce all the same... perhaps to golden state for bogut (i know hes injured but he'll come good).

def do the courtney lee trade. def sign barbosa and jason terry. i ABSOLUTELY let jeff walk for the money he wants. i sign and trade bass for a rebounding center.

i take the same gamble on hasheem thabeet that okc did. i do whatever i need to do to get reggie evans, who is absurdly underated. and i trade off avery bradley during the draft with our 22nd pick and grab andre drummond (not necessarily at number 9 in the draft).

and i grab kg if he wants back.

so i at the least have:

pg - rondo, barbosa
sg - terry, lee
sf - kirilenko, barnes
pf - kg, sullinger, evans
c - bogut, drummond, thabeet

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2012, 04:52:12 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18478
  • Tommy Points: 1551
I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started
I said the players this year were playing at essentially the rate they were last year.  I never said it was more or better talent or a better team.  Bringing in a bunch of role players doesn't make your team better.  It may make it deeper just not better.

Last year was a fluke and a result of key injuries to great players (like Rose, Horford, and Bosh).  If Horford was healthy there is a good chance Boston loses to Atlanta (that series was vastly different the couple of hobbled games he played).  Same thing with Rose and Chicago.  I don't think Boston gets by Chicago with Rose and as is barely survived 8th seed Philadelphia.  Once Miami got Bosh back that series was over.  A fully healthy Bosh and it is a 5 game series.  Boston wasn't a real contender but had a deep playoff run because of other teams misfortunes.  That run tricked a lot of fans into believe Boston was closer to a title than it was.  The reality is Boston is a long way away from a title and the past off season made it even farther away because it took away all short term flexibility.  Boston has no real way to get better this summer either and is stuck with this team for awhile.

once miami got bosh back the series was over? umm miami beat us two times without bosh. We beat them with bosh in game 5 and took a 3-2 lead. lebum won game 6 single handedly. bosh was not a factor until late in game 7.

bottom line is injuries are part of the game. we had them also. but nobody makes excuses for us though right? I am sure miami was saying yeah the C's had no bench and a bunch of geriatric hurt guys so this win really does not count right?  ::) ::)
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2012, 05:16:29 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron.

While I agree with this, the player he was his whole career would still make this team much better IMO, and is probably not too far off from a $9 million per year player in todays NBA.
He is that player.  His numbers are virtually the same on a per minute basis and his shooting numbers are right about his career averages. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2012, 05:19:30 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron.

While I agree with this, the player he was his whole career would still make this team much better IMO, and is probably not too far off from a $9 million per year player in todays NBA.
He is that player.  His numbers are virtually the same on a per minute basis and his shooting numbers are right about his career averages.

That's true.  The only difference is he was much more consistent from game to game in OKC.  He hasn't reached that consistency in Boston, which has been the biggest problem.  You don't know if he is going to be assertive or completely disappear from game to game. 


Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2012, 05:22:25 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started
I said the players this year were playing at essentially the rate they were last year.  I never said it was more or better talent or a better team.  Bringing in a bunch of role players doesn't make your team better.  It may make it deeper just not better.

Last year was a fluke and a result of key injuries to great players (like Rose, Horford, and Bosh).  If Horford was healthy there is a good chance Boston loses to Atlanta (that series was vastly different the couple of hobbled games he played).  Same thing with Rose and Chicago.  I don't think Boston gets by Chicago with Rose and as is barely survived 8th seed Philadelphia.  Once Miami got Bosh back that series was over.  A fully healthy Bosh and it is a 5 game series.  Boston wasn't a real contender but had a deep playoff run because of other teams misfortunes.  That run tricked a lot of fans into believe Boston was closer to a title than it was.  The reality is Boston is a long way away from a title and the past off season made it even farther away because it took away all short term flexibility.  Boston has no real way to get better this summer either and is stuck with this team for awhile.

once miami got bosh back the series was over? umm miami beat us two times without bosh. We beat them with bosh in game 5 and took a 3-2 lead. lebum won game 6 single handedly. bosh was not a factor until late in game 7.

bottom line is injuries are part of the game. we had them also. but nobody makes excuses for us though right? I am sure miami was saying yeah the C's had no bench and a bunch of geriatric hurt guys so this win really does not count right?  ::) ::)
Bosh's first game back doesn't count, he was far from his normal self and wasn't all that close to normal at all in games 6 or 7 either.  He was however the difference in that series once he came back.  He gave Miami an interior presence they were lacking and provided solid defense on KG, something else they were lacking.  The same can be said of Horford in the Atlanta series.  If Horford was healthier, Atlanta probably beats Boston.  Chicago probably would have beaten Boston even without Rose, they just couldn't get by Philly without Rose.

And sure Boston had injuries, to bench players, not to a top 20ish (or better) players in the league (like Atlanta, Chicago, and Miami). 

My point is, Boston's run last year was clearly a fluke.  This team just isn't a contender and the role players signed by Boston this summer were never going to put the team over the top.  It was a pipe dream and thus those role players never should have been signed for the years or dollars they were signed for.  Total and utter failure of an off season. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2012, 05:24:36 PM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron.

While I agree with this, the player he was his whole career would still make this team much better IMO, and is probably not too far off from a $9 million per year player in todays NBA.
He is that player.  His numbers are virtually the same on a per minute basis and his shooting numbers are right about his career averages.

That's true.  The only difference is he was much more consistent from game to game in OKC.  He hasn't reached that consistency in Boston, which has been the biggest problem.  You don't know if he is going to be assertive or completely disappear from game to game.
He has been pretty consistent the last three weeks or so (obviously he was pretty bad against Chicago, but that is a clear outlier). 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2012, 05:30:37 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.
exactly.  He is an average player and has been for years.  He isn't magically going to become Lebron.

While I agree with this, the player he was his whole career would still make this team much better IMO, and is probably not too far off from a $9 million per year player in todays NBA.
He is that player.  His numbers are virtually the same on a per minute basis and his shooting numbers are right about his career averages.

That's true.  The only difference is he was much more consistent from game to game in OKC.  He hasn't reached that consistency in Boston, which has been the biggest problem.  You don't know if he is going to be assertive or completely disappear from game to game.
He has been pretty consistent the last three weeks or so (obviously he was pretty bad against Chicago, but that is a clear outlier).

Oh yeah.  I think the Green we have seen the last 3 weeks has been what they expected...and pretty much what they paid for (although they certainly hoped for more).  It was the beginning of the season that I think was a bit of an aberation. 

Over the last 3 weeks (well, I rounded it off to in December, for ease of stat finding), he is averaging 12.3 points, 4.3 rebounds in 25 minutes, shooting 50% from 3 (this is a bit of an aberation, but doesn't affect things that much), 46% from the field.

Not what you WANT from a $9 million man, but not far from what you would probably expect from that.

And if someone did need a scoring wing, and had a starting job, those numbers probably are pretty attractive.  He is not going to be a star, but if he is playing 35 minutes a night, and putting up say, 16 points and 6 rebounds, that is decent value. 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 05:38:27 PM by Chris »

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2012, 06:20:46 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started
I said the players this year were playing at essentially the rate they were last year.  I never said it was more or better talent or a better team.  Bringing in a bunch of role players doesn't make your team better.  It may make it deeper just not better.

Last year was a fluke and a result of key injuries to great players (like Rose, Horford, and Bosh).  If Horford was healthy there is a good chance Boston loses to Atlanta (that series was vastly different the couple of hobbled games he played).  Same thing with Rose and Chicago.  I don't think Boston gets by Chicago with Rose and as is barely survived 8th seed Philadelphia.  Once Miami got Bosh back that series was over.  A fully healthy Bosh and it is a 5 game series.  Boston wasn't a real contender but had a deep playoff run because of other teams misfortunes.  That run tricked a lot of fans into believe Boston was closer to a title than it was.  The reality is Boston is a long way away from a title and the past off season made it even farther away because it took away all short term flexibility.  Boston has no real way to get better this summer either and is stuck with this team for awhile.

I'm sorry, but saying that the success of a team that has won one title, two conference titles, and been conferences finalists three times over a five year span is a fluke, well, that's ridiculous.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2012, 06:24:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
Barbosa signed late.  Martin is available.  Birdman is available.  Pietrus was available.  All better options than destroying cap space on mediocre players.

  How much cap space do you think we'll have with the big three on the books?

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2012, 06:36:44 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Danny can't play for them or coach them.   I think we were ok with the team at least many were prior to the season.  You can't beat father time though....