Author Topic: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?  (Read 3494 times)

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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2012, 10:43:41 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I am not at all disappointed in Danny. He put together a great off season.

Turned

Ray Allan
Greg Steimsma
Marquis Daniels
Keyon Dooling
Ryan Hollins
JJJ
E Moore

into

Jeff Green
Jason Terry
Courtney Lee
Sullinger
Barbosa
Joseph
J Collins

out of last years group the only guy who i think would improve our current rotation is Steimsma. That is even a big stretch.

The team is under performing but Danny is not to blame. He built the deepest celtics team I have seen in my life time (29).
it may be deep but it doesn't have the talent to truly compete for a title, which means he wasted a lot of money, resources, and cap space building a deeply mediocre team, which is a waste of pretty much everything. 
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2012, 10:57:50 AM »

Offline Chris

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I am not at all disappointed in Danny. He put together a great off season.

Turned

Ray Allan
Greg Steimsma
Marquis Daniels
Keyon Dooling
Ryan Hollins
JJJ
E Moore

into

Jeff Green
Jason Terry
Courtney Lee
Sullinger
Barbosa
Joseph
J Collins

out of last years group the only guy who i think would improve our current rotation is Steimsma. That is even a big stretch.

The team is under performing but Danny is not to blame. He built the deepest celtics team I have seen in my life time (29).
it may be deep but it doesn't have the talent to truly compete for a title, which means he wasted a lot of money, resources, and cap space building a deeply mediocre team, which is a waste of pretty much everything.

As a paying fan, its not a waste if they win some more games, and make some noise in the playoffs.

Championships aren't the be all, end all.  When you don't have a clear track to one, making a winning team can still be a success. 

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2012, 11:14:29 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Again, it is fine to say you are disappointed in him, but what EXACTLY would you have done differently this offseason?

We had basically no cap space.  We acquired Jason Terry and Courtney Lee (moves almost everybody approved of at the time) using a mid-level exception and a sign-and-trade.

All the other signings were for own guys that allowed us to go over the cap.  If you want to argue letting Bass go, then fine.  If you want to argue letting Jeff Green go, then fine.  Please explain how we add equal or better players with the limited cap space we had. 

If you want to argue about the additions he made versus some other options (Jamal Crawford, or Ray) then fine.  Please explain how Jamal Crawford dramatically alters the season thus far.

Danny added a play-now rookie in Sullinger with a pick in the early 20's.  Maybe he could have added another play-now guy with the other pick instead of Melo. If you want to argue that, then fine.  Explain what other rookie would have made a major difference that was selected after 21.

Even argue the Ray situation.  Maybe losing Ray - and his knowledge of the team - was a bigger loss than we all thought at the time.  Please explain how we could have avoided Ray going to Miami, when we offered him a contract, and he rejected it for less money.

My point with all of this is:  if you are disappointed, please explain what Danny could have done that would have you otherwise not disappointed.  If your sole disappointment comes from paying Jeff Green $9M per vs. whatever you magically think he would have accepted, then you are using him for a scapegoat for your true disappointment...

The play of the team, which is built on Rondo, KG, and Pierce.

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2012, 11:18:09 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I am not at all disappointed in Danny. He put together a great off season.

Turned

Ray Allan
Greg Steimsma
Marquis Daniels
Keyon Dooling
Ryan Hollins
JJJ
E Moore

into

Jeff Green
Jason Terry
Courtney Lee
Sullinger
Barbosa
Joseph
J Collins

out of last years group the only guy who i think would improve our current rotation is Steimsma. That is even a big stretch.

The team is under performing but Danny is not to blame. He built the deepest celtics team I have seen in my life time (29).
it may be deep but it doesn't have the talent to truly compete for a title, which means he wasted a lot of money, resources, and cap space building a deeply mediocre team, which is a waste of pretty much everything.

I think we do have the talent to compete for a title.  There aren't a lot of teams that can say that they have a top 10 player and 3 top 50 players.  As a matter of fact, there are only two other teams in the league that can make that claim based on NBA.COMs efficiency stats. 

Green, Terry, Bradley, Lee, Bass, Wilcox, and Sullinger make up a strong supporting cast for our three stars.  This team has the talent.  It's about putting it all together, which I think will come. 

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2012, 12:58:14 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.

Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Haha I just think you are on an island if you think Pierce, Terry, and Lee are performing at the same level as last year.

Im going to venture a guess that you were whining about the team last year not being able to compete for a title and in 2010 for that matter.

If you want them to be the favorite from start to finish its not gonna happen.

Just funny how people whine to whine. If you were the GM no one would have taken a ridiculous 1 year contract for everyone. We wouldn't have had enough players to even field a team. Just a ridiculous post about what you would have done. Why not trade pierce for Lebron and wade while youre at it haha

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2012, 01:28:47 PM »

Offline celts55

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.

Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2012, 02:00:06 PM »

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As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.

You might have to choose between a big who can defend but is, at best, an average rebounder or a big who can rebound, but who will not be an upgrade in defense over Bass or Wilcox.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2012, 02:10:01 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

no, danny did what he could in the offseason. now that things are NOT working he needs to trade whomever needs to be traded to make us better. try one more time and if it does not work then he can blow the whole thing up to kingdom come. he can blow it up at anytime and we know it will happen AT LEAST 2 years from now at the longest. may as well sell out to win now.....at least he can say he tried before he has to blow it up....

Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2012, 02:22:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.

Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Haha I just think you are on an island if you think Pierce, Terry, and Lee are performing at the same level as last year.

Im going to venture a guess that you were whining about the team last year not being able to compete for a title and in 2010 for that matter.

If you want them to be the favorite from start to finish its not gonna happen.

Just funny how people whine to whine. If you were the GM no one would have taken a ridiculous 1 year contract for everyone. We wouldn't have had enough players to even field a team. Just a ridiculous post about what you would have done. Why not trade pierce for Lebron and wade while youre at it haha
The numbers don't lie.  Statistically the vast majority of the Celtics are performing similarly to their recent career output and many are performing better.  That is reality. 

If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.  KG is a tougher question obviously, but I think if the C's would have given him a 1 year contract of 15-17 million with a no trade clause, he probably would have taken it.  And for the record the Celtics signed numerous players to 1 year contracts this year for essentially the veteran minimum (Wilcox, Barbosa, Collins, Milicic).  It isn't that hard to find credible players on 1 year near minimum contracts.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2012, 02:28:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.

Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others. 
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2012, 03:11:33 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I'm disappointed that the players we have perform way worse than their track record indicates.
which ones?  Bass is shooting a bit worse, but everyone else is pretty much the player they have always been.


Well for starters Pierce is having one of his worst starts in his career. Without looking rondo deeply into it im sure the same could be said about Jason Terry as well. Let's not forget that Lee was also shooting 40% from 3 last year and is now below 30%.

Was this a serious comment?
Terry is actually much more efficient than he was last year (though is shooting and playing less so his totals are down a bit). 

Lee's 3PT shooting is worse, but his overall FG% is better as are pretty much all of his other numbers over the prior season. 

Pierce's FG% is lower, but his 3PT and FT% are about the same as are his totals and per minutes in virtually every other category (i.e. rebounds, assists, steals, points).

Rondo has actually improved pretty much across the board both in efficiency and totals. 

Green per 36 is essentially the same across the board. 

KG per 36 is pretty much the same as last year.


So yeah, I was serious.  Apparently you just think because the team is worse it must mean the players are performing worse, which just isn't the case.

Yet another example of satistics being deceiving. I would think most people would agree the the Celtics biggest issue is they lack of defense this year. I don't know how to measure that but I will say Pierce, and KG, are both a year older and look quite a bit slower on the defensive end than they did last year. I didn't really watch much of Terry last year, but I have seen enough this year to know he can't guard anyone. I would have to say there has been a drop off on their play.
Green didn't play last year, so that's hard to judge. Rondo's D or lack of is pretty clear. To be honest the only one who's defense has been pretty good is Lee in my opinion.

As for the question, I was one of the people who was fairly happy whit the players Danny signed, so I'm not going to be an I told you so now. The one thing I had hoped for than and still do now is a big who can defend and rebound in the middle, but they are not easy to find and don't come cheap.
Boston's defense is worse because they let good defenders go in the off season and replaced them with guys who play terrible defense.  Pietrus, Dooling, Stiemer, etc were all much better defenders than the guys that replaced them.  Bradley (who has yet to play) is also a very strong defender.  When you take away good defenders and put in crappy defenders, of course the overall defense of the team is worse.  It also puts more pressure on the better defenders and thus worsens their defense as they have to cover more for others.

Dooling and Pietrus combined missed 60 games last year and played 14 and 20 min a game. Stiemsma played 13 min a game and missed 22 games.

Are you gonna start telling me that we are missing marquis now?

We were 5 min away from making the finals. Danny brought in more and better talent than they lost and according to you that talent is playing at or above their level. How can you blame Danny? If anything you have an issue with Doc or you think we could have somehow signed a superstar. Otherwise you'd rather just tank apparently.


Its kind of irrelevant anyway though since clearly his job nor this season is over yet. It actually has barely started


Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2012, 03:51:54 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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If Jeff Green or Brandon Bass wouldn't take a 1 year contract then you let them walk.  You don't give a lot of years and big money to easily replaceable role players, which is exactly what Bass and Green are and is exactly what the C's did and should not have done.

Given the Celtics cap situation, you'd probably be replacing them with the SF and PF equivalents of Jason Collins.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2012, 03:53:03 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2012, 03:59:52 PM »

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Was last year just an incredible miracle that we made it to the Fourth Qtr of Game Seven of The ECF before the best basketball in the history of the NBA and his two top ten cohorts walked on our faces the last eight minutes to win the series and ultimately the NBA championship.
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Re: Is anyone thoroughly disappointed with danny?
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2012, 04:04:00 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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for signing jeff green more than anything else, or is it just me? 

i just need to know im not alone in this   :)

Absolutely. Danny actually had a pretty good offseason given our limited options, and then we sign Jeff for 4 years at $36m... Worst deal of the summer.

I've been one of Jeff's biggest defenders this season. I really thought, "this guy went through a life threatening event. The game he loves to play was almost taken from him. Its gonna light a fire under him and he's gonna be a different player." But no. Same Jeff as always. Except now, he's overpaid.

Did I mention we're committed to him for 4 years? At 36m? Ugh.

I think the intent on signing Jeff Green at Four Years 36 million was to have him replace Paul Pierce when he retires. He needs more time to feel comfortable  about his increased role. I  say hw breaks out Avery Bradley style in January.


I don't buy it with Green.


AB broke out his second year after he gained a little NBA experience and the Celtics work on his jump shot (got him to lean less)


Green has played how many season now, heavy minutes? 


And it has been consistent play. 



I just don't understand why Green is suddenly going to explode into a better player after all these years just because he is now on the Celtics.


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