Author Topic: Danny Has Made His Bed  (Read 2100 times)

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Danny Has Made His Bed
« on: December 18, 2012, 10:33:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Amid dissatisfaction with the team's performance, there's a lot of talk of trades.  But let's take a look at this roster and how much flexibility Danny Ainge really has in terms of movable assets.

Rondo:
Unless another top player like Chris Paul becomes available on the trade market, it seems unlikely that Ainge will look to move Rondo.  As it stands, Rondo's trade value has never been higher, but aside from a dollar-for-three-quarters kind of deal, it's hard to imagine Rondo getting moved.

Jason Terry:
Danny's first goal of the off-season was to woo Terry to come to Boston to win championships.  Trading Jason Terry with less than half a season in Boston could have a serious chilling effect on future attempts to bring free agents to town.  Not to mention that Terry is having one of his worst seasons and is already 35, meaning his trade value isn't high.

Paul Pierce:
Though Danny supposedly came close to trading Pierce last season, with KG locked up for a couple more seasons, it's hard to envision him trading Pierce.  I think Pierce is basically slated to retire in green unless he and KG both request a trade.

KG:
From the sound of it, the only reason he chose to continue his career rather than retire was because he had the option of returning to Boston to play for Doc Rivers.  I think he might actually have a no-trade clause.  KG isn't going anywhere unless he requests it.

Avery Bradley:
Bradley has shown some good stuff, but we're talking about a month or two of regular rotation minutes followed by months of inactivity due to a couple of pretty serious injuries to his shoulders.  He's going to have to play really well to re-establish his value, and a month and a half or so (from January to mid-February) probably won't be long enough.

Courtney Lee:
He's having an okay season if you ignore his outside shooting.  But a huge part of his value in the past has been his outside shooting, so that's kind of a big deal.  He's not drastically overpaid, but until he starts playing better his contract isn't really a "bargain," either.  What you see is what you get with Courtney Lee, though it's probably safe to assume he'll find his three point stroke again eventually, and he's just entering his prime.  He's far from worthless, but I don't see any teams falling over themselves to acquire him, either.

Brandon Bass:
Much like Lee, Bass is on a reasonable contract, but he's a role player at best, probably ideally suited to a back-up role.  Hard to find a market for a player like that making $6 million a year, especially one who hasn't played particularly well so far this season.

Jared Sullinger:
He's shown some good stuff, but he hasn't exactly been consistent, and he's still a rookie.  Trading him now would be selling really low.  I'm sure some teams like what they've seen and regret somewhat their decision to pass on him in the draft, but he still hasn't proven that he's a sure thing to be more than a backup.

Jeff Green:
Still looks like one of the worst contracts given out this summer, despite the fact that he's had some good games in recent weeks.  He just hasn't been consistent enough, and he's still completely disappearing at times.  Perhaps by the All-Star break he will have strung together enough good performances to establish some trade value, but at the moment he'd pretty much be filler in any deal, considering how many years he's got left.  Some teams might still hold out hope that he can be a top offensive option if given the chance with a starting job, but considering how much he's owed, it'd be a tough sell.

Chris Wilcox:
Worth more to the Celtics than he'd be to some other team in any deal.

Leandro Barbosa:
Some team might want him around the trade deadline for instant offense off the bench, but doubtful anybody gives up any real value for him.  After all, there's a reason he wasn't signed until late October.

Jason Collins:
He's a waiver wire candidate for somebody around the trade deadline.  Or a retiree before season's end.

Fab Melo:
He's a D-league project. Enough said.

Kris Joseph:
We'll see if he's even on the roster by the trade deadline.  He could be waived to make room for some veteran castoffs from some other teams.

2013 1st Round Pick:
Right now it looks as though this is going to be a pick in the mid to late teens, possible the early twenties.  In what is supposed to be a very weak draft, a pick like that probably won't be highly valued by possible trade partners.


Note that nearly all of the players currently on the roster are under contract for at least the next two seasons. 

As underwhelming as the team has been, Danny might be locked into this group, for better or for worse, at least for the duration of this season.  He's made his bed.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 10:39:20 PM »

Offline cman88

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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big


im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.


Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 10:41:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big


im of the opinion that Doc is totally misusing Jeff Green...I mean you give a guy 10minutes one night and 30minutes another and expect him to produce consistently? I just dont get what the deal is with that.

what team out there is going to want to take on $11 million worth of Bass and Lee and give us a quality rotation big man?
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 10:43:30 PM »

Online Who

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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
Going to have to take on a really bad contract with that trade bait.

Probably someone who is an average to below average starter and is egregiously overpaid. Someone like Okafor. Although he only has two years left on his deal. Boston might have to pay a fair bit more. Maybe an additional two first round picks. Maybe eat another bad long term contract if Washington have one left (Ariza?).

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 10:44:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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you can package Bass/Lee together and try to bring in a big
Going to have to take on a really bad contract with that trade bait.

Probably someone who is an average to below average starter and is egregiously overpaid. Someone like Okafor. Although he only has two years left on his deal. Boston might have to pay a fair bit more. Maybe an additional two first round picks. Maybe eat another bad long term contract if Washington have one left (Ariza?).

Ariza and Okafor is a possibility.  Not exactly inspiring, but that might be one of the better options out there.  Still, not sure how we're going to really entice the Wizards, though I guess Jeff Green would be a big upgrade for them at starting SF.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 10:45:06 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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having this group signed for another 2-3 years is only a positive if it's truly team chemistry and player roles that are the problem.  If this is as good as Doc can get them to play, it's either trade them out for different pieces or dump Doc.   I'm leaning towards dump Doc because I think he's incredibly overrated and I really believe a different coach would be getting better results with this roster.

That 1st rounder next year becomes more valuable with each passing week as the C's sink in the standings and continue to slide out of the playoffs.  C's are due for some lottery luck at some point.  the way they're going, they may find out if this is the year lightning strikes and they get that young stud they really need to pair with Rondo (Nerlens Noel perhaps)

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 10:47:21 PM »

Offline Rtpas11

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Doc's a good mentor, but coaching is something he's not good at.
"I'm tired of being the everything that gets nothing"

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 11:12:16 PM »

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Leandro Barbosa:
Some team might want him around the trade deadline for instant offense off the bench, but doubtful anybody gives up any real value for him.  After all, there's a reason he wasn't signed until late October.

A second round pick is all I expect Barbosa is worth. Maybe two if they're in the latter half of the second round.

Kris Joseph:
We'll see if he's even on the roster by the trade deadline.  He could be waived to make room for some veteran castoffs from some other teams.

No value

Fab Melo:
He's a D-league project. Enough said.

Same value as when selected. Late first, early second.

Jason Collins:
He's a waiver wire candidate for somebody around the trade deadline.  Or a retiree before season's end.

No value

Chris Wilcox:
Worth more to the Celtics than he'd be to some other team in any deal.

No value

Brandon Bass:
Much like Lee, Bass is on a reasonable contract, but he's a role player at best, probably ideally suited to a back-up role.  Hard to find a market for a player like that making $6 million a year, especially one who hasn't played particularly well so far this season.

A strong backup PF worth $4-5 million a year being paid $7 million.

So about 40-55% more than he should be. And locked up for two more seasons after this one. Unlikely to get comparable value in return without taking an equally bad or worse contract back in exchange. If they take a much worse contract, maybe they could get an upgrade.

Courtney Lee:
He's having an okay season if you ignore his outside shooting.  But a huge part of his value in the past has been his outside shooting, so that's kind of a big deal.  He's not drastically overpaid, but until he starts playing better his contract isn't really a "bargain," either.  What you see is what you get with Courtney Lee, though it's probably safe to assume he'll find his three point stroke again eventually, and he's just entering his prime.  He's far from worthless, but I don't see any teams falling over themselves to acquire him, either.

Valued role player. Plays good defense. Shoots very well. Decent ball-handler, passer and decision maker. Doesn't rebound.

Several teams will be interested in him as a role player. Some as a starter. Others as a reserve. Obviously, minutes available at his new team will play a big role in dictating value. So the ones who will be interested in him as a starter (say Minnesota, maybe Chicago) are the best bets for value.

A late first round pick. A comparable mid-level rotation player. Unlikely to net a solid starter in return. More likely a strong bench player.

Rondo:
Unless another top player like Chris Paul becomes available on the trade market, it seems unlikely that Ainge will look to move Rondo.  As it stands, Rondo's trade value has never been higher, but aside from a dollar-for-three-quarters kind of deal, it's hard to imagine Rondo getting moved.

There are only around 10 players in the league you consider trading Rondo for and none of them are on the market right now. No trade.

Paul Pierce:
Though Danny supposedly came close to trading Pierce last season, with KG locked up for a couple more seasons, it's hard to envision him trading Pierce.  I think Pierce is basically slated to retire in green unless he and KG both request a trade.

KG:
From the sound of it, the only reason he chose to continue his career rather than retire was because he had the option of returning to Boston to play for Doc Rivers.  I think he might actually have a no-trade clause.  KG isn't going anywhere unless he requests it.

Can't upgrade the team by trading Garnett or Pierce. Too old.

Only value in trading either player is to initiate rebuilding and pick up some assets in the process.

Jason Terry:
Danny's first goal of the off-season was to woo Terry to come to Boston to win championships.  Trading Jason Terry with less than half a season in Boston could have a serious chilling effect on future attempts to bring free agents to town.  Not to mention that Terry is having one of his worst seasons and is already 35, meaning his trade value isn't high.

Maybe. Contract is nice and low on a per annum basis. Makes it easier to move him.

Only title contenders would be interested in him. Everyone knows what he is capable of. What he achieved in Dallas. I think he'll still be valued highly as a sixth man.

There is a chance you could get something of comparable value back in return for Terry. Probably not scoring. More of a defender/rebounder type or an all-rounder. The team acquiring him will probably only do so if they need extra scoring punch. But there is a chance you could get a high level role player in exchange for Terry.

Edit: Trading Terry for a high level role player at another position and promoting Leandro Barbosa to lead backup guard could actually be a very good idea for Boston. I wonder if there is something there.

Jeff Green:
Still looks like one of the worst contracts given out this summer, despite the fact that he's had some good games in recent weeks.  He just hasn't been consistent enough, and he's still completely disappearing at times.  Perhaps by the All-Star break he will have strung together enough good performances to establish some trade value, but at the moment he'd pretty much be filler in any deal, considering how many years he's got left.  Some teams might still hold out hope that he can be a top offensive option if given the chance with a starting job, but considering how much he's owed, it'd be a tough sell.

I think J.Green is a player, much like Bargnani, who's value will vary widely throughout the league. Some will be scared off by his contract, health and inconsistency. Some will see strong potential and be willing to take a chance on him.

I have to believe that Danny was forced into giving J.Green all that money (per annum + length of deal) this summer because of other team's strong interest. Presumably there are still several teams out there who will be willing to take a chance on him and give up something of good value.

Avery Bradley:
Bradley has shown some good stuff, but we're talking about a month or two of regular rotation minutes followed by months of inactivity due to a couple of pretty serious injuries to his shoulders.  He's going to have to play really well to re-establish his value, and a month and a half or so (from January to mid-February) probably won't be long enough.

Jared Sullinger:
He's shown some good stuff, but he hasn't exactly been consistent, and he's still a rookie.  Trading him now would be selling really low.  I'm sure some teams like what they've seen and regret somewhat their decision to pass on him in the draft, but he still hasn't proven that he's a sure thing to be more than a backup.

Uncertain about Bradley and Sully.

I'd say Sully's is quite low. Still soon after the draft and he hasn't accomplished much yet. Probably similar to where it was at draft time. A mid to low first rounder.

Avery Bradley is hard to place trade value wise.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 11:40:05 PM by Who »

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 11:26:16 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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having this group signed for another 2-3 years is only a positive if it's truly team chemistry and player roles that are the problem.  If this is as good as Doc can get them to play, it's either trade them out for different pieces or dump Doc.   I'm leaning towards dump Doc because I think he's incredibly overrated and I really believe a different coach would be getting better results with this roster.

That 1st rounder next year becomes more valuable with each passing week as the C's sink in the standings and continue to slide out of the playoffs.  C's are due for some lottery luck at some point.  the way they're going, they may find out if this is the year lightning strikes and they get that young stud they really need to pair with Rondo (Nerlens Noel perhaps)

This

Doc, not a very good coach...period

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 11:27:07 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.

I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.

I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.

I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.

They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 11:34:03 PM »

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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.
I liked having Thibs and L.Frank here. They would get up in the players face and speak the truth to them.

Very few assistant coaches do that. They coddle players. Be the nice guy. The hand holding. And they end up forcing the head coach to be the bad guy all the time and make life more difficult on him.

I thought it was great for Doc to have that type of presence alongside him on the bench. Took that pressure of him. Didn't force him to be the bad guy all the time. Allowed him more flexibility in moving back between a friendly word and harsh criticism. Freed him up to be a better coach. 

Do any of this year's assistant coaches do that? Get in a player's face and get after them? I haven't noticed.

Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 12:02:12 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Danny made a pretty good bed if you ask me.

I think it's Doc, he's not using the bed correctly. Starting two off the bench guys who flourish in that kind of role. Insisting on small ball. Not giving a green light for Jet to create for himself. Not playing Darko. Not giving Jeff Green some Iso when we saw that he can beat other SF's one on one.

I think Danny did a good job making the bed. But, and I love Doc, we need to make him accountable now. Most of this is his fault I believe.
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Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 12:07:43 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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He did his best with what he had to work with....

Not a lot of money, an unfavorable market, and no trade assets. On paper he brought together talented pieces. The players ultimately have to perform and it's on them. They aren't doing their jobs and there doesn't seem to be any urgency on the court to do so. They definitely lack trust and there seems to be no improvement in terms of chemistry or continuity.

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Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 12:08:22 AM »

Offline blink

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Doc is scared to yell at people and bench them , and start other people instead.

I'd sit LEE down on the END OF THE BENCH and put in Joseph.

I would Bench Pierce , for be old and slow and make Green earn is money , by starting and playing about 35 minutes a game to whip him into shape.

I would play Barbosa every time ROndo walks the ball up court , ROndo sits.

They would hate me , but I wouldn't care.

I was actually thinking that starting JG and bringing PP off the bench to save his legs might be the best non-trade idea to improve the team right now.


Re: Danny Has Made His Bed
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 01:21:20 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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He did his best with what he had to work with....

Not a lot of money, an unfavorable market, and no trade assets. On paper he brought together talented pieces. The players ultimately have to perform and it's on them. They aren't doing their jobs and there doesn't seem to be any urgency on the court to do so. They definitely lack trust and there seems to be no improvement in terms of chemistry or continuity.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Danny.

The point here is, there's not much room for tinkering with this roster.  What you see is what you get.  Unless they "figure it out" or "flip the switch" or whatever cliche you want to throw out there, we're on this train headed nowhere for the duration of the season.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

 

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