Author Topic: Either Bass or Green has to go  (Read 1453 times)

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Either Bass or Green has to go
« on: December 16, 2012, 10:14:39 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Everyone thinks trading celts legend Pierce has to be the last resort.  Unless you can get a steal via trade, he is a more useful piece especially come playoff time. Ok , thats fine.

Maybe he is trying overplay bc the celts have nobody to score at times. When Ray Allen was here and healthy pierce fg percentage wasn't this bad. Same when Bradley was here.

Knowing our org, everyone is waiting for this vet team to settle in and come alive for the stretch drive, Bradley will be a big addition back soon to help with this.

Still i think not having a complete lineup, meaning someone up front to man the boards will be a key issue. Kg is getting old, slower and less scary down at the paint. I don't feel too good , if we had to face a heat team with a healthy bosh. Or what about a healthy Tyson Chandler?
Also legit pf/c have really had an impact to beat the heats small ball lineup. For example what David Lee/Chandler did to them already.

So with this, I like both Bass and Green, but both are tweener role players that don't have much expertise playing/defending down low. They are like the same players and instead of duplication, we could get rid of one and get a guy who knows how to play the paint.  He doesn't have to be a 7 ft giant, but someone like a Carl Landry, Kenneth Faried who love to do the dirty work down low would be fine.

Here are a list of players that we could target to shore up front. The good thing and what makes them more tradeable is that they are in their last years of their contracts. The bad thing is, there will be teams you will have to battle in the trade market to get them.
 
- JJ Hickson - 6'9 pf has been a beast on the boards this year. He is scoring 15 points, and pulling down at times 15 boards a game. We could really use him now
- Nikola Pekovic - If the wolves have been trying to resign the monster kid but he is thinking about more money or playing for a winning team next year, they will likely trade him. Recently scored 31 points shooting 15-18. Very efficient scorer. Could pull down more boards than he has on avg this year.
- Zaza Pachulia - Scola, Verajao, Pachulia all have something in common. Just avg players that will kill themselves to man the boards for their team. He has had many battles with our own KG. It was fun to watch and he did a great job. He is in his last year and I'm not sure if he will stay or the Hawks will resign him.

So i think these are 3 very realistic options, we could get any of these guys just by offering a package including Bass or Green. Bass and Green again are nice vets, are signed to long term deals and could help boost any of the three teams above.

Worse case, Samuel Dalembert is an option. He might take pennies to get also. Has been pretty bad as a buck, but on a vet team like the Celts, could be back playing 80-90 percent of his capacity. Not that old and 3 years ago when he started for the 76rs was pulling down 10-15 boards pretty consistently.

opinions?

 

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 10:20:42 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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if this is our problem, why didnt we even give Darko a chance?

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 11:39:03 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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if this is our problem, why didnt we even give Darko a chance?

He was given one or two chances at the beginning of the year and totally messed up on a few plays. This is unacceptable to Doc rivers standards. I mean everyone messes up and the new guys have also here and there, but I remember Darko messed up was pretty bad. Like you have to iron things out in the pre season and practices but still you make the mistake.  That's why i assume he was bounced around the way he has been the last few years.

So bottom line is, he wouldn't have helped much. Foot speed is avg and i don't think he was excited to play underneath the basket, more than he had no choice to do that, to play in the nba.

When you got guys like Leon Powe, they thrive battling under neat the basket. They wouldn't want to play any other way. You know actually i really miss Powe. 6'8 pf that had the heart of a lion. When your team witnesses what he does for the team, you also play with more passion and may also rebound better suddenly.

Hickson and Pachulia especially are two guys that play very well under the basket but also have good mobility to provide help defense. With Bradley coming back and if we can get one of these guys into the lineup, with the rest of the team, i would feel good about our chances to get somewhere this season and playoffs.

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:34:49 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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JJ Hickson is an empty numbers guy for sure.  I think on a good team he doesnt do much more than Wilcox does for us already.
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Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 01:32:39 AM »

Offline ben

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keep both, start rondo, pierce, green, bass, garnett.





Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 04:45:03 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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He was given one or two chances at the beginning of the year and totally messed up on a few plays. This is unacceptable to Doc rivers standards.

Umm...has Doc not watched Lee and Collins when they have been out there?

Collins is SO much worse than Darko that I cannot even justify the effort of making a comparison.

Metaphorically if you take a barrel and scrapte the mouldy scum off the bottom, that mouldy scum would play better for us then Collins has when he's been on the court. 

It's very difficult to legitimately call a professional NBA player useless, but Collins is exactly that.  He does NOTHING well.  He used to do a good job of frustrating opposing bigs on defense, but even his defense has been BY FAR the worst of any player on the team this year.

I'd take a one armed, one legged Darko over a healthy Collins.

Lee is not as bad as Collins overall, but on a per-dollar basis he's not far off.  $6M for a guy who's playing about well enough to be a 12th man on a lottery team? 

As for Bass, everything that I said would happen has.  Last year he was a mediocre one dimensional player who just happened to have a great skill - the midrange jumper.  I said to everybody that he is only useful until one of the following happens:

1. Opposing defenses adjust and defend his jumper
2. His jump shot ability takes a nose dive

Either one of those two has come true because he's been far less efficient with his midrange shot this year, and the only other positive things he gave us (energy and effort) have both vanished.  He's playing like he has no care out there.

Lee and Bass should be traded if there is even the slightest hint of getting a player worthy of starters minutes. If necessary I have no problem including Barbosa in that.  I do like him for his occasional energy and scoring (plus he's handled the point better than expected so far) bursts but if it's the extra piece that needs to go to get us someone of geuine competence then I don't have a problem with that.  What he's given us certainly hasn't been irreplacable.

Collins should be cut and allowed to retire.  You cannot trade him because I would feel legitimately guilty sending him to any other team - unless it's Miami. 

Alas, knowing Ainge we will trade Lee and Bass for Beasley.  Beasley will then have a major depression and quit from the game, while Lee and Bass will have breakout seasons in Phoenix. 

IMHO these are the only guys who should still be on our roster after the All-Star break:

* Garnett
* Sullinger
* Pierce
* Bradley
* Rondo
* Terry
* Green
* Wilcox

I'd like to keep Joseph and Melo around as long term prospects - I like both of those kids even if they aren't quite NBA ready just yet.

I'd still play Melo over Collins in a heartbeat.

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 05:18:47 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Everyone thinks trading celts legend Pierce has to be the last resort.  Unless you can get a steal via trade, he is a more useful piece especially come playoff time. Ok , thats fine.

Maybe he is trying overplay bc the celts have nobody to score at times. When Ray Allen was here and healthy pierce fg percentage wasn't this bad. Same when Bradley was here.

Knowing our org, everyone is waiting for this vet team to settle in and come alive for the stretch drive, Bradley will be a big addition back soon to help with this.

Still i think not having a complete lineup, meaning someone up front to man the boards will be a key issue. Kg is getting old, slower and less scary down at the paint. I don't feel too good , if we had to face a heat team with a healthy bosh. Or what about a healthy Tyson Chandler?
Also legit pf/c have really had an impact to beat the heats small ball lineup. For example what David Lee/Chandler did to them already.

So with this, I like both Bass and Green, but both are tweener role players that don't have much expertise playing/defending down low. They are like the same players and instead of duplication, we could get rid of one and get a guy who knows how to play the paint.  He doesn't have to be a 7 ft giant, but someone like a Carl Landry, Kenneth Faried who love to do the dirty work down low would be fine.

Here are a list of players that we could target to shore up front. The good thing and what makes them more tradeable is that they are in their last years of their contracts. The bad thing is, there will be teams you will have to battle in the trade market to get them.
 
- JJ Hickson - 6'9 pf has been a beast on the boards this year. He is scoring 15 points, and pulling down at times 15 boards a game. We could really use him now
- Nikola Pekovic - If the wolves have been trying to resign the monster kid but he is thinking about more money or playing for a winning team next year, they will likely trade him. Recently scored 31 points shooting 15-18. Very efficient scorer. Could pull down more boards than he has on avg this year.
- Zaza Pachulia - Scola, Verajao, Pachulia all have something in common. Just avg players that will kill themselves to man the boards for their team. He has had many battles with our own KG. It was fun to watch and he did a great job. He is in his last year and I'm not sure if he will stay or the Hawks will resign him.

So i think these are 3 very realistic options, we could get any of these guys just by offering a package including Bass or Green. Bass and Green again are nice vets, are signed to long term deals and could help boost any of the three teams above.

Worse case, Samuel Dalembert is an option. He might take pennies to get also. Has been pretty bad as a buck, but on a vet team like the Celts, could be back playing 80-90 percent of his capacity. Not that old and 3 years ago when he started for the 76rs was pulling down 10-15 boards pretty consistently.

opinions?

  The team doesn't need a rebounder, it needs a good interior defender that can play when KG is on the bench.

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 07:34:00 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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A good interior defender who can rebound would be ideal...

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 07:38:22 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The team doesn't need a rebounder, it needs a good interior defender that can play when KG is on the bench.

the three guys i listed are also decent defenders. Pachulia the most consistent out of the three.

If all you need is a defensive presence while kg rest for a few min, than why not put in melo in the lineup?

But i do disagree with you that a defender is all we need. Even when kg is on the floor, we been getting killed inside lately. He is not the same presence he has been before.

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 08:16:03 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I don't think this is a case where one has to go in an effort to get them off the team.



I do think it is likely one (or both) could be traded in an effort to bring someone else in that plugs a bigger hole. 

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 09:08:27 AM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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Anyone but Collins

Mikki Moore, POB, Hollins,

Re: Either Bass or Green has to go
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 10:24:30 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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can i ask somebody , how long this bs is going to last?? how much more torture do i have to endure? Game after game we are getting killed inside the paint. The other game, splitter , today Boozer.

I would love to just get back Stiemer and Hollins right now. These guys are not doing anything for their teams either and would cost pennies to get back.

Like i stated starting this thread, please trade either Bass or Green for a guy who can handle the paint. I would trade Green first , if anyone even wants him.