Author Topic: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern  (Read 1662 times)

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Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« on: December 16, 2012, 10:36:59 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Over the course of this season, people have been theorizing as to why the Celtics are off to another mediocre start. Theories from Doc's love of small ball, to age of some of the vets, to having too many new players, to the schemes being to difficult for players to understand, to young players not getting enough playing time have all been thrown about. But its time to realize what the problem is.

It's the defense.

The Celtics, a team that prides itself on defense, is giving up 97.8 points per game. Their defensive efficiency(points given up per 100 possessions) is at 101.1. These numbers put the Celtics defense squarely in the middle of the pack when compared to other defenses this year. This is a place they are not used to being in.

The last time the Celtics had numbers this bad was in the pre-Big Three era year of 2006-07 when they had such defensive luminaries as Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Ryan Gomes and Sebastian Telfair. The Celtics during the Big Three era have had two of the most stifling defenses in league history(2008, 2011) and others that were consistently in the top 3 of the league with PPG given up ranging between 89.7 and 95.6. They are now over 2 PPG over their highest PPG given up level since the Big Three era began.

2 points is a lot of points. That they are giving up almost 8 PPG more than last year is unfathomable. The drop off in defense from last year to this year is almost as dramatic as the historic turnaround of the Celtics defense from 2006-07 to 2007-08. Except of course, in the opposite direction

Danny obviously figured that with his starting five intact from last year's great defensive team that adding some offense to the bench would make the team that much better. Unfortunately, Bradley has been out all year, Paul Pierce's and Rajon Rondo's defense has been, at best, below average and KG, Boston's best and most dedicated defender, has had his minutes limited.

The KG stats are astounding. The Celtics defensive efficiency when KG is on the court is 96.8. When he is off the court it rises to an almost incomprehensible 115.3. That's over 18 points per 100 possession difference!

KG is the team's best pick and roll defender, big man defender and rotational defender. His defense is extraordinary especially when taken into the context of his age and importance on the offensive end of the court.

The problem is that there is not one other player playing on this team that can state they are having a good defensive year. Take a gander at Boston's most used five man rotations.

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213BOS2.HTM

Just about every one that doesn't have a starter in it has a tremendously lopsided to the negative difference between their offensive and defensive efficiency. The bench crew just is not doing anything defensively.

And it's not just the bench. Teams that have two quality big men will cause fits for the Celtics. Brandon Bass, while giving it his all is too small to guard many larger PFs who play in the paint and too slow to coverage many of the perimeter PFs that proliferate the league now.

Pierce's defense might be some of the worse he has played since his early days when he just didn't care about playing defense. Is it age? Lack of conditioning? Deterioration of skills? Something else? Only Pierce and probably the coaching staff can answer that question.

And then there's Rondo. Defensively he is an enigma. He has the skills to be the best defensive PG in the league. But his lack of effort on that end can be disturbing. He is one of the fastest men in the league and yet young fast guards go by him like he is standing still. His coverage of his man when on the weak side is laughable. His reliance on the swat from behind move is pathetic as he misses more than he hits it and allows his man to go unmolested into the lane, most often.

Rondo can also be the best defensive man on the floor at times, especially in big games or nationally televised games. Its maddening to Celtics fans who see KG in the same light as Larry Bird and John Havlicek and Dave Cowens, players that gave their 100% best effort night in and night out, minute after minute, never taking ganes off or even plays off defensively. They know Rondo has the capability to do this but he just doesn't bring it on that end like those other Celtics greats before him.

All in all, if this team is going anywhere this year it will be done with defense. Their offense is much improved. Their defensive rebounding rate will probably be one of the better ones in the league. Their shooting efficiencies will also be amongst the best in the league. But they have to start playing Big Three era defense, both individually and as a team. They have to get better in the pick and roll defense. They have to deny the inside position. They have to rotate to the weak side faster. They have to get back faster to stop the opponent's transition offense. And they have to stop allowing all these uncontested layups without making people earn those points at the line.

Its all about defense for this team and unless we as fans start seeing some played, there is no reason to expect any long term success for this team.


 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 10:43:55 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 12:25:23 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I agree that defense is the key.  I am cautiously optimistic that it will turn around soon based on a couple of things.

One is that we were a poor defensive team to start the season last year as well.  We eventually turned it around and ended up yet again being a top defensive team in the league by the end of the year.

Also, we have been improving defensively this year as well.  The last two games, not so much, but in the six games prior to the Houston and San Antonio games, we held everybody to under 100 on the defensive rating scale. 

We have to recover from a unfortunate trip to Texas and get back to playing the type of D that I'm convinced that this team is still capable of playing. 
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 12:52:29 PM »

Offline MBunge

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It's the defense.


And this is a case where the eye test is just as good as any statistical analysis.  The defense on pick-n-rolls looks bizarre, with the big man blitzing the guy coming off the pick and then running back to his man like a chicken with his head cut off.  Not only has the Celtic D not looked like that, you don't see other teams' D looking like that.

And something needs to be said.  Pierce, KG and Rondo have been here forever.  Bass was here all last year.  Green and Wilcox spent some time with the team last year and had a full training camp this year.  Courtney Lee is clearly a a capable defender and Jason Terry has been with many teams and played under different coaches without ever having the reputation of being just gosh darn awful on defense.  The only player who should legitimately be having problems defensively is Sully, and he can't possibly be the cause of everything being so out of whack.

This isn't about the players.  There is something going on with the coaching.  This team has had a problem with effort during the last few seasons under Doc and now, it's not just effort.  They don't even look fundamentally sound.  I don't know what it is and maybe they'll eventually get it together the way they have in the past but whatever the problem is, it's not going to be fixed by a trade because it's not a problem with personnel.

Mike

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 01:45:46 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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It's the defense.


And this is a case where the eye test is just as good as any statistical analysis.  The defense on pick-n-rolls looks bizarre, with the big man blitzing the guy coming off the pick and then running back to his man like a chicken with his head cut off.  Not only has the Celtic D not looked like that, you don't see other teams' D looking like that.

And something needs to be said.  Pierce, KG and Rondo have been here forever.  Bass was here all last year.  Green and Wilcox spent some time with the team last year and had a full training camp this year.  Courtney Lee is clearly a a capable defender and Jason Terry has been with many teams and played under different coaches without ever having the reputation of being just gosh darn awful on defense.  The only player who should legitimately be having problems defensively is Sully, and he can't possibly be the cause of everything being so out of whack.

This isn't about the players.  There is something going on with the coaching.  This team has had a problem with effort during the last few seasons under Doc and now, it's not just effort.  They don't even look fundamentally sound.  I don't know what it is and maybe they'll eventually get it together the way they have in the past but whatever the problem is, it's not going to be fixed by a trade because it's not a problem with personnel.

Mike

Great defense is hard to play.  Even for the greatest defensive teams (the Boston Celtics being a great case in point), there's going to be inconsistency on the defensive end, particularly when you meet up with a team that is clicking offensively. 

I don't think it's a matter of poor coaching or poor effort.  I think it's a matter of finding their defensive rhythm.  It'll come.

And, I don't want to call him our savior, but Avery will help the team find that defensive rhythm. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 02:11:31 PM »

Offline wahz

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I agree with all of this but I still think its a lack of consistency in approach and effort. In no particular order going man by man, yesterday Rondo gives a weak effort on his man near the lane probably 4 times. I often go back and watch the game again but I am not doing that for this one. So lets call it 3 matador moments for Rondo. Lee is poorly positioned twice, counting one pick and roll. Lee has had days like this but was better for awhile. Terry made a great effort but was a step slow getting out to the three line twice. Rondo did this an additional two times that I recall. Noticed very little with KG, Green. Sully again seemed to be where he should be. Wilcox was out of position badly one time that I recall. Bass about where he should be but too small on a rotation on Splitter, and TD each. You can't fix small. PP basically not covering anyone. Time after time he is playing poor d and not getting out to the three line. Nothing on Barbosa stands out.

And I think that breakdown is about right for the season. PP has been far below his average. Rondo generally disappointing on d. Bass a step below last year where his height seemed to not be a factor after March.  Lee hasn't been a big step up that we thought he could be. And Green lately has been even somewhat better than expected. Throw in that the under performers Rondo, PP and Bass are often  on the floor with KG and you possibly know they have been worse than the stats even show. Rondo and Bass are probably physically as capable as last year. PP may not be and appears to not be. My own conclusions are that the team needs to progress together a lot more still and somehow this process has Rondo, Bass and PP looking the worst. Additionally Rondo's defensive effort is worse. Finally, PP seems to have dropped off physically. Time and a change in tactics can conquer the first thing and the playoffs will conquer the second. PP was supposedly healthier this year and yet he is playing way worse d so frankly he might be saving himself or he is just losing the battle of time finally.

And yes Avery is also going to make a huge difference. A lot of these troubles are about penetration. The other teams will be disrupted by Avery.

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 02:43:39 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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No shot blocking presence. No intimidating big man in the paint to protect the rim. It's one of the problems but it's the biggest and should be addressed, immediately.

While I understand there the rotations are, well, some are missing the rotations, if we have someone who can block shots and/or physically challenge penetration, we'll have a much better defense.
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Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 05:24:12 PM »

Offline cman88

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its something to note as well that our defense looked horrible last year until we started.....Avery Bradley...and now it looks middle-of-the-pack while bradley is out.

having an elite defender can cover up mistakes of other players...and while Lee is a "good" defender, Bradley is an ELITE one.

he can impact the game just through his defense. and adding him to the team come the next couple of weeks is going to make a big difference for them defensively.

Garnett has called him their "defensive leader' which is some big words coming from the best defender on the team...

if they still look poor when bradley is back I will start to worry. but right now I feel once we get him back into the starting role things will start to pick back up.

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 05:35:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo can also be the best defensive man on the floor at times, especially in big games or nationally televised games. Its maddening to Celtics fans who see KG in the same light as Larry Bird and John Havlicek and Dave Cowens, players that gave their 100% best effort night in and night out, minute after minute, never taking ganes off or even plays off defensively. They know Rondo has the capability to do this but he just doesn't bring it on that end like those other Celtics greats before him.


  So do you have any evidence that Rondo plays better defense on nationally televised games? If so, is it specific to any particular network? Does it matter if it's ABC of TNT or ESPN? How about NBATV? Does that count as national tv?

Re: Celtics' Defense: The Real Cause For Concern
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 06:19:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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KG is the only guy holding our defense together at times.  When he sits, it all falls apart.  This team is not a good defensive team unless KG is playing.  KG is 36 and he can't play 36+ minutes a night without breaking down, so that's a HUGE problem.
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