Author Topic: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame  (Read 2860 times)

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Offline ronaldo943

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 12:13:08 PM »
This is a joke shawn marion and elton brand are on the list and i dont think i saw kobe on the list i might be wrong
DKC SPURS
Tony Parker/Nate Robinson/Cory Joseph
Randy Foye/Jeremy Lamb
Shawn Marion/Vince Carter
Tim Duncan/JJ Hickson/J. O'Neal
Brook Lopez/Tiago Splitter

Offline Who

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 12:13:49 PM »
Wow, Horace Grant (121.23) is as good as Kevin McHale (121.44).

Offline The4Time2Doctor0

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 12:37:52 PM »
this proves numbers are sometimes just numbers.

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 12:51:33 PM »
Do they say anything about taking out Jerry West and Elgin Baylor? You know, guys who got smoked in the finals every year by guys like Sam Jones and Bob Cousy?  >:(


Beast:

Offline RebusRankin

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 12:58:53 PM »
Hey if Wilt was so great why did he lose all the time? Ditto Reggie Miller? What a sad joke.

Offline 2short

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 01:33:35 PM »
stupid
however when you look up point guard for the first era of the national basketball association you'll see a photo of Bob Cousy

Offline foulweatherfan

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 01:49:26 PM »
Reading over the methodology, it seems like this heavily favors players who played on good teams while being substantially better than most of their teammates.  That's not a terrible angle in and of itself - the HOF is an individual award, and a player excelling in spite of a lower-caliber roster around him is meaningful in that regard. 

But it leaves out a huge additional factor - under this system, guys who legitimately make their teammates better (like Bird, Russell and Magic) are going to get buried by this system.  Even guys who are just "unlucky" enough to be major parts of awesome squads are underrated.  Whereas guys who put up big numbers on top-heavy teams (like Jordan's title teams) get heavily overrated.  Plus it appears to completely leave out playoff performance, which is a pretty unforgivable omission.

It's like any other analytic - it's a different angle, it can be interesting to discuss, but it's making a terrible case for being better than the current selection process.

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 03:38:09 PM »
Hey if Wilt was so great why did he lose all the time? Ditto Reggie Miller? What a sad joke.

Exactly.

Offline Lord of Mikawa

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 11:06:19 AM »
If putting your foot on the neck of the NBA and crushing greats like Wilt and West year in and out isn't Hall of Fame worthy....I don't want to live on the same basketball planet as these clowns.
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Offline Celtic Fan Forever

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2013, 01:06:37 AM »
No Isiah Thomas, James Worthy, Willis Reed, Alex English... wow
CB Draft Pistons:

C:   Andre Drummond/ Greg Oden/ Gorgiu Dieng
PF: Anthony Davis/ Bismack Biyombo
SF: Al Farouq Aminu/ Otto Porter
SG: Bradley Beal/ Dion Waiters/ Sergey Karasev
PG: Eric Bledsoe/ Trey Burke/ Norris Cole

Offline mgent

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 12:18:14 PM »
I wonder how they valued the ABA stats. Those guys look quite high.
They had long careers.

Cousy, Jones, Heinsohn, etc. did not which puts them at a huge disadvantage in career win shares.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Offline TripleOT

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Re: ESPN: Cousy, Sam Jones, others shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2013, 06:12:35 PM »
Bob Cousy invented the PG position.  If he's not in the Hall of Fame, you might as well burn it down. 

This isn't baseball. Someone like Vince Carter or Antawn Jamison is going to retire with a ton of statistics that will eclipse the numbers of a lot of HOFers.  Is either player a Hall of Famer?  I say NO. Basketball is about more than statistics.

To me, the success the player had and the impact he had on the NBA are important factors for a HOFer. VC or Jamison barely left any playoff footprint on the league, and to me that's a big factor. One can argue that they had the misfortune of not playing with other great players, but to me, an all time great should make his team great.     

 

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