Author Topic: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.  (Read 7206 times)

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Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2012, 02:43:43 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2012, 03:02:45 PM »

Offline alajet

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That Chandler Parsons that you know nothing about has about exactly the same efficiency rating as does PP (17.81 to PP's 17.86).  Parsons is a player.  I do wish he would get a more manly haircut:-))))))  This kid can play and Ainge totally screwed up by taking JJ rather than this kid!!!!!

Smitty77

This.
Moreover, his performance has got nothing to do with Pierce alone. He posted a statline of 31-5-4-4 over Carmelo Anthony. Why are people so keen on reading into single game stats for this seriously, I wonder.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2012, 03:13:51 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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He's 35... You're just figuring that out now??

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2012, 03:22:26 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.

Yes, just to expand on the point a little bit -- take a look at all of the top teams in the league.  What do they have in common?


Top scoring options:

OKC - Durant / Westbrook
Miami - LeBron / Wade
NY - Melo
SA - Parker
Memphis - Randolph / Gay
LAC - Griffin / Crawford / Paul
GS - Curry / Lee
ATL - Smith / Horford

Not all of those teams are elite, but those are the top two tiers of teams in the league so far this season.

Every last one of them depends on top scoring options who are, at most, 30-32 years old.  In most cases one of their primary options is 27-29.

The Celtics are not an "old" team in the sense that many of their key players are not that old.  But they are very old in the sense that 3 of their top 4 scoring options are 35+.  That's a major part of the explanation for their inconsistency.


While Rondo is the Cs central and best player, and he is not yet 27, most of the time he operates as the 3rd or 4th option in our offense.  That's fine -- it's the best role for him -- but it means we need to surround him with guys who can carry that load every night.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 03:35:19 PM by PhoSita »
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2012, 03:25:16 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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He's 35... You're just figuring that out now??

lol, exactly! tp

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2012, 03:53:12 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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If you had your eyes opened, this didn't happen fast, it's been happening over the last few years.   He didn't get free for his shot or missed those last shots he used to ice.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2012, 04:22:35 PM »

Offline biggs

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I hate to say it, I hate even more to watch it but that is a significant problem with this team. Pierce's shooting is a career low, his three point shooting is the third lowest of his career and lately it has been awful, barely over .200%. He is getting torched on defense, they showed two clips on ESPN of him getting his ankles shattered by opposing players the other day. Chandler Parsons nearly had a triple double against him last night. Chandler "You would not know who I was even if I had my on reality show" Parsons.

Sometimes it happens slowly, sometimes it happens in a flash but all players get old. They lose a step. They have less lift. Their shot goes flat. Sadly that is what has happened to Paul Pierce, the stats bear it out.

Now I am not suggesting we trade him. I want Paul to retire a Celtic. I think though that we have to give a long look at starting Jeff Green. We need to see what we have there. In fact at nine million a year it is imperative that we see if he can play big boy minutes. Lately, while playing at three he has looked pretty good. Really good while at the three alongside Rondo. Jeff Green might really light it up if given the chance. I honestly believe is a player that needs to start, not come off the bench.

Now I know by doing this it might signal a white flag by the Celtics. I doubt that, I think Paul might thrive as sixth man. It is an honored Celtic tradition and Paul has been a consummate professional for his entire career. It would certainly keep him fresher for the playoffs and allow him to not worry as much chasing around top flight small forwards that simply are too quick for him now. Paul was never blazingly fast to begin with, his game was about guile, strength, angles and spacing. He his the perhaps the greatest ever at that facet of the game.

Now I may be run out of town for all of this, but take a close look and I think you will find I am right. It happens to all players, the Celtics must admit to it and adjust.

Agreed

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2012, 04:24:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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He's not playing all that worse than he was last year.  His shot is a little off, but it's been 20 games and it's a long season.  He's still averaging 20 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.5 steals... shooting 41%, 35% from three and 82% from the line.

He's still as important to this team's success as KG and Rondo.  He's probably just going through a cold streak.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2012, 04:26:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I guess Luol Deng and Rudy Gay have gotten old too, because neither of them is playing any better.

Your point is? I am not worried about Luol Deng or Rudy Gay. Neither of whom was ever as good as Pierce and as I wrote, I have desire to trade Paul, simply let him be the sixth man and play between twenty and thirty minutes a game rather than the thirty five a game he is playing now.

My point is that despite looking so "old" and "declining" so much, Pierce is still one of the best at his position in the league, behind only LeBron, Durant, and Melo. 

All of the other guys who have been productive at the position this year are hybrid forwards who don't score nearly as much as Pierce does, or carry nearly as much of a burden offensively as he has to.

Pierce looked pretty cooked at the start of last season, too.  Barring any significant injuries to his knees or ankles, I think Paul will be fine when it matters.  I don't think that starting Jeff Green is by any stretch a good solution.  Green has never been nor will he likely ever be as productive as Paul Pierce on a per-minute basis.  That's just not who he is.

Green absolutely could NOT step in and be our #1 offensive option, which Pierce unquestionably is.

Now -- the fact that Paul still has the responsibility of being our #1 option at his age is definitely an issue, and part of the reason that our team is not among the elite anymore.  Ideally, Paul would be the #2 or #3 option on a truly great team.  With him as the #1 and KG as the #2, it's not a surprise that our offense struggles.

But again, starting Jeff Green won't solve that problem.

This

I have been saying that is our problem. The issue is not KG OR PP it is the fact that they are our elite players, and they are much too old for that.

Yes, just to expand on the point a little bit -- take a look at all of the top teams in the league.  What do they have in common?


Top scoring options:

OKC - Durant / Westbrook
Miami - LeBron / Wade
NY - Melo
SA - Parker
Memphis - Randolph / Gay
LAC - Griffin / Crawford / Paul
GS - Curry / Lee
ATL - Smith / Horford

Not all of those teams are elite, but those are the top two tiers of teams in the league so far this season.

Every last one of them depends on top scoring options who are, at most, 30-32 years old.  In most cases one of their primary options is 27-29.

The Celtics are not an "old" team in the sense that many of their key players are not that old.  But they are very old in the sense that 3 of their top 4 scoring options are 35+.  That's a major part of the explanation for their inconsistency.


While Rondo is the Cs central and best player, and he is not yet 27, most of the time he operates as the 3rd or 4th option in our offense.  That's fine -- it's the best role for him -- but it means we need to surround him with guys who can carry that load every night.

  Imagine San Antonio's relief that Duncan (scoring a point a game less than Parker) isn't considered one of their top scoring options. This makes them much more viable contenders.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2012, 04:46:41 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Ya, he's looking more and more like a gunner.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2012, 05:03:21 PM »

Offline Smutzy#9

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I would still take paul over 90% of the league.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2012, 05:18:54 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I would still take paul over 90% of the league.
There's only 40 players outperforming him in a league of like 422.  Of the 40 players currently outperforming him... there's a couple you'd still probably take Pierce over... like Ryan Anderson.  There's a couple who play a redundant position to Rondo like Jrue Holiday.  SO yeah... right now, you'd probably definitely take PIerce over 90% of the league.  If you're aiming towards the future, there's probably quite a few players not performing as well as Pierce that you'd have to trade him or.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2012, 06:56:46 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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If you're aiming towards the future, there's probably quite a few players not performing as well as Pierce that you'd have to trade him or.

Well, you're right if you talk about managing a fantasy league team, or a video game. But there's more to basketball than stats and projections, we're talking about people. About players and about fans, who follow their team and get attached to their stars.

So no, in the real world you don't trade the Captain unless he's demanding a trade and you're getting a star player in return (not likely).

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2012, 07:02:29 PM »

Offline mctyson

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And people wonder why Danny gave Green 4 years on his contract.

Re: Sorry, but Pierce has gotten old.
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2012, 07:13:58 PM »

Offline jdz101

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Seriously you could have just grabbed a bunch of threads that were posted this time last year and this forum would have looked exactly the same. "This team is done", "pierce is old", "this team sucks"


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

 

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