Author Topic: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee  (Read 6898 times)

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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 06:35:44 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing.  Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players.  He makes 5 mil...   

So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping.  Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million.  Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.

You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks. 
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778

There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely.  Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is.  I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench. 

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te

So, unless we are trading Terry in addition to Lee, Lee is the ballast?

Essentially, at that point the trade is more about Sully/Melo/picks/etc..  for Gortat or such.  I'd be hard pressed to see us getting much more than Gortat at best for an offer like that.

Adding Terry would be something only a team contending would be interested in.  A three team trade might work, depending on how valuable Terry is seen as, and whether or not that team has any value to send out.

I don't think any of the 4 proposals had enough talent going out, or at least talent the other team would be interested in.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2012, 07:04:08 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Was wondering why he's starting... makes sense.

I thought he'd be safe because we jumped through all those hoops to get him.

we didn't give up much for him - JJJ is out of the league, ETwaun was cut, and they got that early 2nd round pick.

I was never excited about Lee.  When a guy plays for 4 teams his first 5 years in the league, he simply is not that good.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2012, 07:55:47 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Lee sign a 5 year deal right? Dont know who will take that on..

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2012, 08:07:30 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.

I think Jeff Green and Paul Pierce can defend big wings better than Courtney Lee can.

The big power two guards in the league right now ... none of them have great quickness. You can play a Jeff Green or Paul Pierce against them. You don't need a quicker defender like C-Lee against them.

  • Stephen Jackson plays the three exclusively these days. He's gone.
  • Joe Johnson has SF level speed. Paul Pierce has done an excellent job on JJ in the past.
  • Kobe Bryant is the most athletic of them and he's not a good athlete. Kobe has also destroyed Courtney Lee in the past. Paul Pierce is our best defensive option against Kobe.
  • Andre Iguodala is the only one with high level quickness / athleticism. Not a great scorer anyways.
  • Tyreke Evans has the size but lacks a power game. More of a dribble penetrator. A guard like Bradley or Rondo can do a good job on Tyreke.
  • Gordon Hayward hasn't added a power game yet either. Plus, he struggles mightily as a defender/rebounder against big wings with size so Pierce / Green cause him lots of issues on the other end.
  • Klay Thompson and Rip Hamilton are long but mostly run through screens for catch and shoot situations. I can live with Bradley against them. Kevin Martin is a more well-rounded scorer but fits a similar mold as them in terms of matchup issues. I think Bradley can handle them.
  • Jason Richardson has lost a lot of quickness over the last few years and can be dealt with by a SF like Pierce or Green. That SF will create an advantage over J-Rich on the other end.
   

There is no reason for Courtney Lee to play ahead of Bradley/Rondo or Pierce/Green. The Celtics can matchup effectively, very often in superior way, by using a smaller defender or bigger defender than Lee to handle the various matchups at the SG position.

----------------------------------------------

Courtney Lee doesn't even matchup that well against bigger power two guards. He lacks the size/bulk to handle them. He has regularly struggled against them throughout his career. Orlando, New Jersey, Houston. Consistent problems against bigger two guards. C-Lee is not an answer against them. Just because he is 2 inches bigger than Bradley doesn't mean he can do the job. He's never (consistently) shown that capacity.

I think Courtney Lee's main value is against smaller quicker guards like Monta Ellis or Eric Gordon and explosive guards with average size like D-Wade or James Harden. But again, Bradley matches up even better against those quicker twos than C-Lee does.

All true, yet it would still remain a problem without the additional wing with size. Bring Bradley in, and remove Lee, and we still have the same roster problem we have at the moment, in part because we don't have another player capable of playing minutes as a SF.

And having a sixth man like Terry at hand, we need someone like Lee to complement him off the bench.

I have no problem with Pierce as a SG, in fact, I love him there, but I don't can't envision a scenario at the moment in which we can play him and Green together in substantial minutes without playing him into the ground.

Also, in no shape or form should my post should be construed as Lee rather than Bradley thing. I think we need both. Our roster make-up just calls for it, and in my opinion not much room for Barbosa other than some spot minutes when nothing is going to plan.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2012, 10:29:04 PM »

Online LarBrd33

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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing.  Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players.  He makes 5 mil...   

So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping.  Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million.  Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.

You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks. 
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778

There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely.  Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is.  I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench. 

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te

So, unless we are trading Terry in addition to Lee, Lee is the ballast?

Essentially, at that point the trade is more about Sully/Melo/picks/etc..  for Gortat or such.  I'd be hard pressed to see us getting much more than Gortat at best for an offer like that.

Adding Terry would be something only a team contending would be interested in.  A three team trade might work, depending on how valuable Terry is seen as, and whether or not that team has any value to send out.

I don't think any of the 4 proposals had enough talent going out, or at least talent the other team would be interested in.
I don't think those trades had enough talent going out either.  In the case of Utah they'd want a PG back if they are getting rid a big.  You'd have to include draft picks and probably involve a 3rd team.  But the point I was making is that you HAVE to include Lee if you want to take back salary.  It's literally the only possible way (until Jan 15th) to even begin to discuss trades. 

I guess I say that simply because I can't see the team moving Terry.  But honestly I wouldn't mind trading Terry.  I also wouldn't necessarily mind trading Bradley as a "piece" of a large trade.  But I'm the minority on that one... I envision a starting lineup of Rondo, Pierce at SG and Jeff Green at SF... so even if we're left with only Barbosa off the bench, I don't think it really hurts us all that much if we're making a big improvement to our starting lineup at the bigs. 

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2012, 11:14:10 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Courtney Lee = fools gold

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2012, 12:43:04 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Some of you guys crack me up.  Lee pretty much stinks.  You know what kind of players you can get in return?  Another player that stinks. 

Seriously, if we want an impact big (not a star), we likely need to give up Avery AND Sully.  And that might not be enough.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2012, 01:47:48 AM »

Offline chambers

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Some of you guys crack me up.  Lee pretty much stinks.  You know what kind of players you can get in return?  Another player that stinks. 

Seriously, if we want an impact big (not a star), we likely need to give up Avery AND Sully.  And that might not be enough.

I think we could get a high impact big by moving Avery Bradley.

ie Avery+Bass+Melo for Gortat.

Or Sully, Bass and a pick etc.

We probably don't need to send both Bradley and Sully to get Gortat. Just depends what other teams are offering as well.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2012, 08:36:47 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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why is he starting? we lose when he starts. poor kid is garbage

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2012, 09:01:19 AM »

Offline Kuberski1

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Don't see anything happening for a while....trade deadline still months away, and we probably won't be the same team then as now (could we be much worse!?).

I don't see Lee as a problem, though could also see him getting moved, with the potential logjam at the 2.   I actually like him - solid defender, hustles, is trying to penetrate more than he has in the past - just not connecting on his 3s....yet.

I think the far bigger problem is all around lousy defense, and you could probably point the finger at everyone not named KG.  The perimeter guys let opponents wiz by into the lane, leave plenty of others open behind the arc, and the bigs just miss rotation after rotation inside....I can't remember giving up so many inside shots since the early days of Big Al....

Can we trade Lee for Thibs?

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2012, 10:59:20 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I don't think we can trade Jason Terry.  He went out and got his own no-trade clause tattooed on his left bicep.

http://celticshub.com/2012/08/15/jason-terry-shows-off-his-new-celtics-tattoo-talks-about-next-season/
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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2012, 11:54:45 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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bass, lee, melo for gortat.  ;D

i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me.  KG back to PF.  Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok.  Green in spot duty at PF.  Use Collins in case of emergency.

Too bad Phoenix unlikely to do it. They could get more from someone else IMO.

then give them Green and keep Bass here - at least you know what you are going to get from him every night and he doesn't shy away from a fight.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2012, 12:31:24 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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bass, lee, melo for gortat.  ;D

i like bass but green and sully are coming around. if we get a bog who can score some and rebound and play defense that is better than bass right there.
that deal would work for me.  KG back to PF.  Wilcox and Sully as the primary bigs off the bench would be ok.  Green in spot duty at PF.  Use Collins in case of emergency.

Too bad Phoenix unlikely to do it. They could get more from someone else IMO.

then give them Green and keep Bass here - at least you know what you are going to get from him every night and he doesn't shy away from a fight.

They have Beasley. I KNOW they want to move him, but they might not be able to. Assuming they can't he and Green are too redundant.

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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2012, 01:03:46 PM »

Offline MBunge

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why is he starting? we lose when he starts. poor kid is garbage

If you think Lee is the problem, think again.

Mike 

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2012, 01:15:45 PM »

Offline ForexPirate

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Lee is not the problem - trying to fit him into Ray Allen's mold is the problem.  Let Lee be Lee

 

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