Author Topic: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee  (Read 6842 times)

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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2012, 10:49:03 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.

In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.


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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2012, 10:50:00 AM »

Offline Who

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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.

I think Jeff Green and Paul Pierce can defend big wings better than Courtney Lee can.

The big power two guards in the league right now ... none of them have great quickness. You can play a Jeff Green or Paul Pierce against them. You don't need a quicker defender like C-Lee against them.

  • Stephen Jackson plays the three exclusively these days. He's gone.
  • Joe Johnson has SF level speed. Paul Pierce has done an excellent job on JJ in the past.
  • Kobe Bryant is the most athletic of them and he's not a good athlete. Kobe has also destroyed Courtney Lee in the past. Paul Pierce is our best defensive option against Kobe.
  • Andre Iguodala is the only one with high level quickness / athleticism. Not a great scorer anyways.
  • Tyreke Evans has the size but lacks a power game. More of a dribble penetrator. A guard like Bradley or Rondo can do a good job on Tyreke.
  • Gordon Hayward hasn't added a power game yet either. Plus, he struggles mightily as a defender/rebounder against big wings with size so Pierce / Green cause him lots of issues on the other end.
  • Klay Thompson and Rip Hamilton are long but mostly run through screens for catch and shoot situations. I can live with Bradley against them. Kevin Martin is a more well-rounded scorer but fits a similar mold as them in terms of matchup issues. I think Bradley can handle them.
  • Jason Richardson has lost a lot of quickness over the last few years and can be dealt with by a SF like Pierce or Green. That SF will create an advantage over J-Rich on the other end.
   

There is no reason for Courtney Lee to play ahead of Bradley/Rondo or Pierce/Green. The Celtics can matchup effectively, very often in superior way, by using a smaller defender or bigger defender than Lee to handle the various matchups at the SG position.

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Courtney Lee doesn't even matchup that well against bigger power two guards. He lacks the size/bulk to handle them. He has regularly struggled against them throughout his career. Orlando, New Jersey, Houston. Consistent problems against bigger two guards. C-Lee is not an answer against them. Just because he is 2 inches bigger than Bradley doesn't mean he can do the job. He's never (consistently) shown that capacity.

I think Courtney Lee's main value is against smaller quicker guards like Monta Ellis or Eric Gordon and explosive guards with average size like D-Wade or James Harden. But again, Bradley matches up even better against those quicker twos than C-Lee does.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2012, 11:43:29 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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No reason to do anything until we see what Bradley brings to the table.

I don't know whether to believe this rumor or not, but even if it's true, as we all know Danny will kick the tires on about 500 deals between now and the deadline, including some involving just about every other player on the team. This is normal.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2012, 11:52:16 AM »

Offline cman88

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the problem with our defense doesnt start with our bigs, it starts with our GUARDS...Rondo/Terry cant stay in front of anyone. and Lee does on a limited basis.

people neglect the fact that when your guards allow so much dribble penetration, and guys to race down the floor in transition it puts your bigs in a position to have to STEP UP.

and when they do that leaves their man open.

I'm interested to see how the defense looks once Bradley gets back. because if he can keep his guy in front of him, and his ball pressure takes 15seconds off the clock then our defense looks totally different.

people forget this defense was one of the best in the NBA last year with practically the same lineup...the only difference is the absence of Avery bradley and our guards are porous.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2012, 12:26:48 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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Anthony Randolph anyone? He's gotta be cheap at this point, and languishing on somebodys bench..

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2012, 01:27:22 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Our team is very very vulnerable from big wings, we don't have size. Trading Lee would be a big mistake if you don't have a contingency plan to add a player who can fit the role of a big wing defender.

I very much like our team as is, I don't get the fascination with some sort of "major" shake-up.  A few tweaks here and there, which can mostly be accomplish with Bradley returning and some vet. min. pick-ups, and we should be golden.

Yeah Courtney lee's prototypical shooting guard size has done nothing to make us less vunerable...Hes 6'5 but hes soft and average.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2012, 01:53:08 PM »

Online moiso

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Anthony Randolph anyone? He's gotta be cheap at this point, and languishing on somebodys bench..
I wanted him a couple years ago.  He has very interesting talent, but I don't think he is the power player that we need.

I'm very surprised Randolph hasn't really improved since his rookie year, when I thought he would be a star some day.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2012, 01:54:40 PM »

Online hpantazo

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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.

In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.

I'd consider Gooden for Lee. Gooden is a good rebounder with decent shooting range, he would fit in well. I read a comment somewhere on celticsblog that him and Doc don't like each other. Is there any truth to that?

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2012, 02:01:06 PM »

Online moiso

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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.

In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.

I'd consider Gooden for Lee. Gooden is a good rebounder with decent shooting range, he would fit in well. I read a comment somewhere on celticsblog that him and Doc don't like each other. Is there any truth to that?
As Tommy has said, Gooden always seems to be productive when he plays, but it's weird how he always falls out of favor very quickly on every team he plays on.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2012, 02:15:59 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The kind of big you can get for Courtney Lee is probably one signed for the full MLE whose contract the team now considers a mistake.

In that vein, I'm sure the Bucks would give us Drew Gooden.

  I don't think that adding another power forward is the answer. Plus he's signed for quite a while. Dalembert makes the same money...

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2012, 02:37:18 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.

Gortat is the  "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for,  anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.

Rondo, Lee , Sully , AB , Bass , Green , Melo,Joseph  are the type of players that will have to be given up to get an impact BIG man or Center.  DOn't think KG, JET or PP are on the table period this year.

If we lose a bunch of the next 11 games...  I think Danny goes hard for J.Smith, Varejao,or Cousins and TRIES to keep Rondo.  If the team looks ALOT better with Avery B....Danny may make a go for Gortat.


Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 04:53:37 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.

Gortat is the  "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for,  anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.

I would happily trade Lee (with maybe a draft pick thrown in) for a big who would be a clear upgrade over Wilcox.
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Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 06:04:01 PM »

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to get a player worth the effort have to give up some of our better players.

Gortat is the  "LOWEST" caliber player I'd trade for,  anybody that makes less impact is probally not worth the effort.

I would happily trade Lee (with maybe a draft pick thrown in) for a big who would be a clear upgrade over Wilcox.
Me too

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2012, 06:07:57 PM »

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I can't imagine Courtney Lee has too much trade value around the league right now.

Re: Celtics "repeatedly" shopping Courtney Lee
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2012, 06:13:55 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I don't think it really has anything to do with how good/bad Lee is playing.  Lee's our biggest salary chip right now if you're not including any of our 3 best players.  He makes 5 mil...   

So OBVIOUSLY he's the one we're shopping.  Including him in a trade is essentially our ONLY option right now if we want to take back a player making over 5 million.  Bass and Green both can't be traded until Jan 15th and it's harder to trade Jason Terry at this point.

You could target Gortat (who makes 7 mil) by offering Lee + melo or Lee + Sully or Lee + Sully and Melo... and lots of draft picks. 
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3yh5gc
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c54o778

There's also the hilarious tattoo-related option of trading Lee AND Jet (combined 10 mil) + the young bigs and going after a player making 10+ million like Josh Smith, that that's pretty unlikely.  Honestly, I wouldn't care about trading Jet and Lee if Avery Bradley is as great as everyone here seems to think he is.  I think Barbosa off the bench will be just as effective as Jet off the bench. 

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cojakqk
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c26u6te
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 06:19:09 PM by LarBrd33 »

 

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