Author Topic: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school  (Read 21299 times)

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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2012, 09:00:05 PM »

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I don't live in the States, but I'm pretty sure banning guns would prevent tragedies like this.

The whole "we need to protect ourselves from intruders" argument is just an excuse for fat old republicans to shoot someone.

  The sad thing is some people are wacky enough to believe things like this.

Call me wacky, then. I'm thin and young, not fat and old, but I am white and Republican, and conservative and Christian, and though I don't own a gun now, I used to (a hunting rifle), and so does my brother, and my dad, and so do many folks around my hometown in central Maine, and I can tell you that there aren't many home invasions around there, because potential criminals know what they might be in for.

I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

I think there's a large disconnect between rural and urban Americans on this issue, and I think anti-gun urbanites are in for a big fight if they try to disarm pro-gun ruralites. Rural and urban life are quite different, each with its pros and cons, and some understanding is required both ways. Speaking for rural folks, you already have to take gun safety classes before you can be licensed to hunt, and you have to go through a waiting period of several days before being allowed to purchase a gun (of any kind). I think those are reasonable safety measures, but I'm not sure what more could be done beyond that. A mental health test? Perhaps. Wouldn't bother me to have to go through that.

If, however, you're thinking "ban all guns," be prepared for a huge fight. The Constitution would have to be changed, first of all, but on a more practical level, it's easy to say (especially in the aftermath of such tragedy), "Yes, ban all guns, even for hunting and self-defense purposes," but are you prepared for the implications of such actions? Are you prepared to tell responsible, safety-trained sportsmen that they can no longer hunt? And what's your contingency plan for dealing with overexpanding deer and other animal populations–a plan that's likely to cost quite a bit of taxpayer money, on top of the massive loss of revenue from no selling of hunting licenses. And are you prepared to tell people, especially those in out-of-the-way places, 20-30 minutes from police help, that they can't arm themselves to protect their families, their spouses and little children?

I'm just saying that there's a lot to consider, and hasty action is often the enemy of wisdom.
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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #196 on: December 15, 2012, 10:00:47 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I don't live in the States, but I'm pretty sure banning guns would prevent tragedies like this.

The whole "we need to protect ourselves from intruders" argument is just an excuse for fat old republicans to shoot someone.

  The sad thing is some people are wacky enough to believe things like this.

Call me wacky, then. I'm thin and young, not fat and old, but I am white and Republican, and conservative and Christian, and though I don't own a gun now, I used to (a hunting rifle), and so does my brother, and my dad, and so do many folks around my hometown in central Maine, and I can tell you that there aren't many home invasions around there, because potential criminals know what they might be in for.

I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

I think there's a large disconnect between rural and urban Americans on this issue, and I think anti-gun urbanites are in for a big fight if they try to disarm pro-gun ruralites. Rural and urban life are quite different, each with its pros and cons, and some understanding is required both ways. Speaking for rural folks, you already have to take gun safety classes before you can be licensed to hunt, and you have to go through a waiting period of several days before being allowed to purchase a gun (of any kind). I think those are reasonable safety measures, but I'm not sure what more could be done beyond that. A mental health test? Perhaps. Wouldn't bother me to have to go through that.

If, however, you're thinking "ban all guns," be prepared for a huge fight. The Constitution would have to be changed, first of all, but on a more practical level, it's easy to say (especially in the aftermath of such tragedy), "Yes, ban all guns, even for hunting and self-defense purposes," but are you prepared for the implications of such actions? Are you prepared to tell responsible, safety-trained sportsmen that they can no longer hunt? And what's your contingency plan for dealing with overexpanding deer and other animal populations–a plan that's likely to cost quite a bit of taxpayer money, on top of the massive loss of revenue from no selling of hunting licenses. And are you prepared to tell people, especially those in out-of-the-way places, 20-30 minutes from police help, that they can't arm themselves to protect their families, their spouses and little children?

I'm just saying that there's a lot to consider, and hasty action is often the enemy of wisdom.

  Haha. I had to read that a few times to figure out what was going on in your post. When I said "The sad thing is some people are wacky enough to believe things like this" I meant it's sad that people are wacky enough to believe that the whole "we need to protect ourselves from intruders" argument is just an excuse for fat old republicans to shoot someone.

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #197 on: December 15, 2012, 10:04:46 PM »

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Quote
I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

Name one incident where a gun stopped a crime like this one.   I can't think of one outside a place that gets robbed like a jewelry store or liqour store.    Sorry but citizen soldiers are never around to stop this shootings.   It is a myth perpetuated by the NRA.

People do get shot breaking into a home sometimes.   But that is a different situation.   I would guess not as many carry their weapons as we think.

I have stopped three crimes in my life with my fists.  I stopped a hate crime on a mexican american who was being beaten to death, I stopped a mugger once and tackled him and I stopped a wife beater and beat the abuser.   People thought I was crazy all three times to risk my life even though it was the right thing to do.   I would guess the same is of those with guns.   Talk is cheap and action is costly as it can get you killed.  I am not thin nor am I young and I don't need a gun to kill a man nor did I when I young.

So the reality is peeps do not cut loose on these blokes with a gun because they don't want to killed bud.

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #198 on: December 15, 2012, 10:13:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote
I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

Name one incident where a gun stopped a crime like this one.   I can't think of one outside a place that gets robbed like a jewelry store or liqour store.    Sorry but citizen soldiers are never around to stop this shootings.   It is a myth perpetuated by the NRA.

People do get shot breaking into a home sometimes.   But that is a different situation.

  Breaking into a home looks like exactly the situation he's talking about.

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #199 on: December 15, 2012, 10:45:18 PM »

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Quote
I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

Name one incident where a gun stopped a crime like this one.   I can't think of one outside a place that gets robbed like a jewelry store or liqour store.    Sorry but citizen soldiers are never around to stop this shootings.   It is a myth perpetuated by the NRA.

People do get shot breaking into a home sometimes.   But that is a different situation.

  Breaking into a home looks like exactly the situation he's talking about.

Yeah, pretty much.
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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #200 on: December 15, 2012, 11:10:59 PM »

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Quote
I'm not saying we should all walk around wearing a couple of six guns like in the Old West, but it often takes police a while to respond, especially in rural areas such as where I come from, and it's comforting for a lot of people to know that if a bump in the night awakens them, they're prepared to cautiously deal with the situation without waiting 20 or 30 minutes for the police to show up.

Name one incident where a gun stopped a crime like this one.   I can't think of one outside a place that gets robbed like a jewelry store or liqour store.    Sorry but citizen soldiers are never around to stop this shootings.   It is a myth perpetuated by the NRA.

People do get shot breaking into a home sometimes.   But that is a different situation.   I would guess not as many carry their weapons as we think.

I have stopped three crimes in my life with my fists.  I stopped a hate crime on a mexican american who was being beaten to death, I stopped a mugger once and tackled him and I stopped a wife beater and beat the abuser.   People thought I was crazy all three times to risk my life even though it was the right thing to do.   I would guess the same is of those with guns.   Talk is cheap and action is costly as it can get you killed.  I am not thin nor am I young and I don't need a gun to kill a man nor did I when I young.

So the reality is peeps do not cut loose on these blokes with a gun because they don't want to killed bud.

I commend you for your actions, which were both brave and heroic. I admit that I can't name a single incident in which a legally armed citizen used a gun to stop a potential school shooting (though that doesn't mean it hasn't happened), but that's not the only situation in which legally armed citizens can and have stopped a crime from happening. In my book, stopping a store robbery or a home invasion is no small thing. Banning all guns would leave store employees and families much more vulnerable to criminals: is that a price you're willing to pay? I'm not.

I also think that as tragic as the Newtown situation is, incidents like that get magnified because they are so shocking, and because innocent children are involved. Such incidents involve intense emotional (almost visceral) responses on the part of responsible, caring citizens such as ourselves, and that's perfectly justifiable, but such emotion can also lead to overreactions. As horrible as Newtown, Columbine, etc., were and are, the number of deaths from school shootings pales in comparison to the number of deaths, for example, caused by drunk driving–about 16,000 a year–yet there is no thunderous, nationwide clamor to ban alcohol, or to require all new cars to have breathalyzer-enabled ignitions.

Newtown was an awful, terrible tragedy that we all mourn, and we all want to prevent such a thing from happening again. If anything can be done–that's constitutional and reasonable–to prevent such tragedies, I'm all for it. I think, though, that a total gun ban is a bad idea.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #201 on: December 15, 2012, 11:30:57 PM »

Offline chambers

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break ins and robberies being stopped by guns?
Crime sucks, but dead people sucks more. Murders suck.

If you take away guns, it makes it harder for the average joe robber to get his hands on one. It also makes it more expensive.
Just like the UK and Australia, the less guns there are, the less murders will occur.
The guns there are, the more power the police have to fight crime.

The pro gun crowd can't seem to acknowledge that there are countries other than the USA that have tried gun control and it has worked very well.
You can't arm everyone. That makes it even easier for a psycho to get a gun. It makes it easier for an accident to happen.

In Australia it's almost impossible for this shooter to get his hands on the guns he used without forking out thousands of dollars AND going through security checks OR being linked with SERIOUS organised crime.
 It's impossible for him to get a kevlar vest because NO ONE can get them- it's not even an option for a kid to walk to school with a gun because guns just aren't there.

Once again, I don't know how many more innocent people have to die, but the rest of the world is looking at the USA as almost moronic that the American public allows this to continue. It's going to happen again, and again, and again.
Just look outside the US and read the data. Gun control works.
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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #202 on: December 16, 2012, 12:26:00 AM »

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break ins and robberies being stopped by guns?
Crime sucks, but dead people sucks more. Murders suck.

If you take away guns, it makes it harder for the average joe robber to get his hands on one. It also makes it more expensive.
Just like the UK and Australia, the less guns there are, the less murders will occur.
The guns there are, the more power the police have to fight crime.

The pro gun crowd can't seem to acknowledge that there are countries other than the USA that have tried gun control and it has worked very well.
You can't arm everyone. That makes it even easier for a psycho to get a gun. It makes it easier for an accident to happen.

In Australia it's almost impossible for this shooter to get his hands on the guns he used without forking out thousands of dollars AND going through security checks OR being linked with SERIOUS organised crime.
 It's impossible for him to get a kevlar vest because NO ONE can get them- it's not even an option for a kid to walk to school with a gun because guns just aren't there.

Once again, I don't know how many more innocent people have to die, but the rest of the world is looking at the USA as almost moronic that the American public allows this to continue. It's going to happen again, and again, and again.
Just look outside the US and read the data. Gun control works.
TP.

These statements are true, period. There's not a single non-fact in there.

It has worked for lots of countries, but the US think they're special. Well, that's how much of the world sees you too now: "special".

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #203 on: December 16, 2012, 01:43:03 AM »

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break ins and robberies being stopped by guns?
Crime sucks, but dead people sucks more. Murders suck.

If you take away guns, it makes it harder for the average joe robber to get his hands on one. It also makes it more expensive.
Just like the UK and Australia, the less guns there are, the less murders will occur.
The guns there are, the more power the police have to fight crime.

The pro gun crowd can't seem to acknowledge that there are countries other than the USA that have tried gun control and it has worked very well.
You can't arm everyone. That makes it even easier for a psycho to get a gun. It makes it easier for an accident to happen.

In Australia it's almost impossible for this shooter to get his hands on the guns he used without forking out thousands of dollars AND going through security checks OR being linked with SERIOUS organised crime.
 It's impossible for him to get a kevlar vest because NO ONE can get them- it's not even an option for a kid to walk to school with a gun because guns just aren't there.

Once again, I don't know how many more innocent people have to die, but the rest of the world is looking at the USA as almost moronic that the American public allows this to continue. It's going to happen again, and again, and again.
Just look outside the US and read the data. Gun control works.
TP.

These statements are true, period. There's not a single non-fact in there.

It has worked for lots of countries, but the US think they're special. Well, that's how much of the world sees you too now: "special".

Ah, yes. The ol' "arrogant American" thing.

Do my brother and father hunt because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they hunt because they enjoy it, and because they enjoy being able to pull a good piece of venison out of the freezer whenever the craving hits them. I see nothing wrong with that.

Do some people in our country keep guns in their homes because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do so because they want to protect themselves and their families from those who would do them harm. I see nothing wrong with that, either.

Do some American shop owners keep guns under the counter because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do it so that when some armed thug walks in demanding money or goods, they can give him a taste of his own medicine and protect their property.

I've written numerous posts in this thread detailing numerous reasons why guns shouldn't be banned, and I really wish people would read those and give real consideration to the points I make. It might not change your mind, but it's food for thought, which seems to be something that quite a few people want to forsake in exchange for knee-jerk reactions.

To chambers: Calling people "moronic" is a good way to ensure that they never take your advice. Also, what if some crazy person in your country DID have thousands of dollars, or what if security checks failed, or what if he WAS involved with organized crime? Where there's a will, there's a way.

To all those who want to see America ban all guns: Chances are you're glad that Mr. Obama is our president, and that he wants to make America into Europe West–socialized medicine, cars no bigger than golf carts, and complete nonexceptionalism–so I guess there's hope for you that your desire to ban guns will also take place. Though I certainly recommend not venturing into my home state of Maine with your gun-ban gospel.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis


Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #204 on: December 16, 2012, 01:50:36 AM »

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This is about how I feel about this thing. The onion nailed it:

NSFW, language, and humor in line with the Onion's other stuff.

LINK

You know, I would have said that there is no way to bring humor into something like this, but the Onion pulled it off.  That is dead on.

ditto. nailed it.

I love the Onion.  It always makes me laugh. That's their only article that's ever made me cry.  TP to IP.

Much love out to all my fellow Celtics fans and their families.

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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #205 on: December 16, 2012, 02:12:12 AM »

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[Equote author=rocknrollforyoursoul link=topic=61039.msg1353956#msg1353956 date=1355640183]
break ins and robberies being stopped by guns?
Crime sucks, but dead people sucks more. Murders suck.

If you take away guns, it makes it harder for the average joe robber to get his hands on one. It also makes it more expensive.
Just like the UK and Australia, the less guns there are, the less murders will occur.
The guns there are, the more power the police have to fight crime.

The pro gun crowd can't seem to acknowledge that there are countries other than the USA that have tried gun control and it has worked very well.
You can't arm everyone. That makes it even easier for a psycho to get a gun. It makes it easier for an accident to happen.

In Australia it's almost impossible for this shooter to get his hands on the guns he used without forking out thousands of dollars AND going through security checks OR being linked with SERIOUS organised crime.
 It's impossible for him to get a kevlar vest because NO ONE can get them- it's not even an option for a kid to walk to school with a gun because guns just aren't there.

Once again, I don't know how many more innocent people have to die, but the rest of the world is looking at the USA as almost moronic that the American public allows this to continue. It's going to happen again, and again, and again.
Just look outside the US and read the data. Gun control works.
TP.

These statements are true, period. There's not a single non-fact in there.

It has worked for lots of countries, but the US think they're special. Well, that's how much of the world sees you too now: "special".

Ah, yes. The ol' "arrogant American" thing.

Do my brother and father hunt because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they hunt because they enjoy it, and because they enjoy being able to pull a good piece of venison out of the freezer whenever the craving hits them. I see nothing wrong with that.

Do some people in our country keep guns in their homes because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do so because they want to protect themselves and their families from those who would do them harm. I see nothing wrong with that, either.

Do some American shop owners keep guns under the counter because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do it so that when some armed thug walks in demanding money or goods, they can give him a taste of his own medicine and protect their property.

I've written numerous posts in this thread detailing numerous reasons why guns shouldn't be banned, and I really wish people would read those and give real consideration to the points I make. It might not change your mind, but it's food for thought, which seems to be something that quite a few people want to forsake in exchange for knee-jerk reactions.

To chambers: Calling people "moronic" is a good way to ensure that they never take your advice. Also, what if some crazy person in your country DID have thousands of dollars, or what if security checks failed, or what if he WAS involved with organized crime? Where there's a will, there's a way.

To all those who want to see America ban all guns: Chances are you're glad that Mr. Obama is our president, and that he wants to make America into Europe West–socialized medicine, cars no bigger than golf carts, and complete nonexceptionalism–so I guess there's hope for you that your desire to ban guns will also take place. Though I certainly recommend not venturing into my home state of Maine with your gun-ban gospel.
[/quote]

You make some good points, but I think you've completely misunderstood the point that those guys are making.  I think they are simply saying that there is very strong evidence that in countries with strong anti gun laws there is much less violent crime.

If strong gun laws will mean less senseless killing and loss of innocent lives in our nation, then I'll be willing to ask some guys in Maine to sacrifice the venison in the freezer.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 02:26:16 AM by Celtics18 »
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Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #206 on: December 16, 2012, 02:12:52 AM »

Offline LB3533

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A lot of things that have happened go unreported by the media.

These things just do not draw "the ratings".

While it may be fact that the statistics being reported about other countries and gun related events/deaths are much lower than the USA, what about other events/deaths by non-gun violence go unreported?

I am not a gun owner and I probably never will. I am not a "pro-gun owner". And my first reaction is we should do more to regulate gun control, especially on automatic/assault guns/weapons.

But....after thinking more about the issue:

Whether you or government remove guns, knives, bazookas, nun-chucks, "insert any weapon here".....if you do not address the unstable, crazy, mentally ill, psycho/sociopaths, depressed, bullied, "normal", "insert any other labeled person", who chooses or is driven to cause harm, pain, death....the problems will still remain.

The vast majority of society's members are capable and law abiding citizens.

To strip these people of their rights puts society and its people in a weakened position.

Weaker against whom you may ask? Think about it.

There may be a small group of potential criminals who did not have the stones to steal your car or rob your home because they were scared of the thought of being killed by that car owner with a gun or that home owner with a shotgun.

These are just the "weaker" potential criminals.

The "stronger", "smarter" criminals are even more dangerous. And this group already has advantage over good regular folk even if these regular folk had guns in their home....but take the guns away from regular folk, then there is virtually zero chance to win while going down fighting in defense of your car, home, loved ones.

My position is for good folks who abide by the law and have their proper permits for appropriate guns be able to utilize that right.

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #207 on: December 16, 2012, 02:21:51 AM »

Offline chambers

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break ins and robberies being stopped by guns?
Crime sucks, but dead people sucks more. Murders suck.

If you take away guns, it makes it harder for the average joe robber to get his hands on one. It also makes it more expensive.
Just like the UK and Australia, the less guns there are, the less murders will occur.
The guns there are, the more power the police have to fight crime.

The pro gun crowd can't seem to acknowledge that there are countries other than the USA that have tried gun control and it has worked very well.
You can't arm everyone. That makes it even easier for a psycho to get a gun. It makes it easier for an accident to happen.

In Australia it's almost impossible for this shooter to get his hands on the guns he used without forking out thousands of dollars AND going through security checks OR being linked with SERIOUS organised crime.
 It's impossible for him to get a kevlar vest because NO ONE can get them- it's not even an option for a kid to walk to school with a gun because guns just aren't there.

Once again, I don't know how many more innocent people have to die, but the rest of the world is looking at the USA as almost moronic that the American public allows this to continue. It's going to happen again, and again, and again.
Just look outside the US and read the data. Gun control works.
TP.

These statements are true, period. There's not a single non-fact in there.

It has worked for lots of countries, but the US think they're special. Well, that's how much of the world sees you too now: "special".

Ah, yes. The ol' "arrogant American" thing.

Do my brother and father hunt because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they hunt because they enjoy it, and because they enjoy being able to pull a good piece of venison out of the freezer whenever the craving hits them. I see nothing wrong with that.

Do some people in our country keep guns in their homes because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do so because they want to protect themselves and their families from those who would do them harm. I see nothing wrong with that, either.

Do some American shop owners keep guns under the counter because they think they're better than people from other countries? No, they do it so that when some armed thug walks in demanding money or goods, they can give him a taste of his own medicine and protect their property.

I've written numerous posts in this thread detailing numerous reasons why guns shouldn't be banned, and I really wish people would read those and give real consideration to the points I make. It might not change your mind, but it's food for thought, which seems to be something that quite a few people want to forsake in exchange for knee-jerk reactions.

To chambers: Calling people "moronic" is a good way to ensure that they never take your advice. Also, what if some crazy person in your country DID have thousands of dollars, or what if security checks failed, or what if he WAS involved with organized crime? Where there's a will, there's a way.

To all those who want to see America ban all guns: Chances are you're glad that Mr. Obama is our president, and that he wants to make America into Europe West–socialized medicine, cars no bigger than golf carts, and complete nonexceptionalism–so I guess there's hope for you that your desire to ban guns will also take place. Though I certainly recommend not venturing into my home state of Maine with your gun-ban gospel.


Firstly, the 'moronic' statement is not being made by me, I'm passing on a general perception that the rest of the developed world has towards the US's gun laws.
I'll just let you know I am Australian, but I live between the USA and Australia. My lady is American, and she's a therapist in the CT area, she works at two centers, one of which is in Danbury, about 15 minutes from where this happened. She has patients/clients that attend this school. It's hit pretty close to home as you can imagine. I LOVE the USA.

Anyway, I can't help but think you just re-inforced my point.
If a crazy person did have thousands of dollars they'd still have a hard time sourcing a gun in Australia.
The high cost of guns is another measure in trying to prevent the problem in the first place.

You're saying 'where there's a will, there's a way'.

This person can't access these guns in Australia. Period. You need to know someone in organised crime or you need to be a police officer.
That's the only way you're getting an automatic rifle like that. Even a pistol is hard to get.

I understand very well the deeply entrenched culture of guns and protecting ones civil liberties in the USA. My wife's family are republicans from upstate New York. I've had this discussion at the dining table many a time.

I just wanted a civilised debate on the matter. On national TV.
I'm just baffled that this clown in CT, and the other clown in Colorado can get an Assault rifle that can kill that many people so easily.
Even if he had just a hand gun, we'd only have 5 or 6 (trying to put a positive spin on this) deaths compared to 27.
Why do we need assault rifles and automatic machine guns?
If they are easy to get, someone with ill intentions will get them.

As I said, it would be basically impossible for this kid to get his hands on a kevlar vest and an assault rifle in Australia.
Why can't it be the same here?
America's supposed to be the land of the free.

We're so scared of guns in the USA that people actually want to acquire more guns than the bad guys 'just in case'. That's called being scared. It's horse *&#% if I may be honest.
It's certainly not freedom. Freedom is being able to walk around your local town, send your kids to school, or go to your local movie theater with your family and never even worry about some loony unloading a high caliber gun.
Something has to change, I'm glad you agree, and I do understand where you're coming from.
I just hope that you can see that at the moment, the way it's been for the past 50 years just isn't working.
The only way it seems to work effectively in society's similar to the USA's is to limit the number of guns in the street so that you don't need a gun if someone breaks into your home because they don't have a gun and they can't get one.
They don't think to break into your home because they can't get a gun in case someone catches them in the act.

Being so scared of guns and crime in the greatest country on earth, that we must resort to getting more guns is definitely not what the founding fathers of this country wanted when they set out the constitution and the amendments.
That's not freedom, that's the crap that the homeless and politically disposed in the middle East and Africa have to deal with, Americans shouldn't have to.
Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #208 on: December 16, 2012, 02:28:42 AM »

Offline chambers

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A lot of things that have happened go unreported by the media.

These things just do not draw "the ratings".

While it may be fact that the statistics being reported about other countries and gun related events/deaths are much lower than the USA, what about other events/deaths by non-gun violence go unreported?

I am not a gun owner and I probably never will. I am not a "pro-gun owner". And my first reaction is we should do more to regulate gun control, especially on automatic/assault guns/weapons.

But....after thinking more about the issue:

Whether you or government remove guns, knives, bazookas, nun-chucks, "insert any weapon here".....if you do not address the unstable, crazy, mentally ill, psycho/sociopaths, depressed, bullied, "normal", "insert any other labeled person", who chooses or is driven to cause harm, pain, death....the problems will still remain.

The vast majority of society's members are capable and law abiding citizens.

To strip these people of their rights puts society and its people in a weakened position.

Weaker against whom you may ask? Think about it.

There may be a small group of potential criminals who did not have the stones to steal your car or rob your home because they were scared of the thought of being killed by that car owner with a gun or that home owner with a shotgun.

These are just the "weaker" potential criminals.

The "stronger", "smarter" criminals are even more dangerous. And this group already has advantage over good regular folk even if these regular folk had guns in their home....but take the guns away from regular folk, then there is virtually zero chance to win while going down fighting in defense of your car, home, loved ones.

My position is for good folks who abide by the law and have their proper permits for appropriate guns be able to utilize that right.

But this Ryan kid who just killed 27 people can't kill 27 people with a knife or a crossbow or a cro-bar.
That's the point.

His access to a semi automatic assault rifle means he can kill 30 people.
How many people can this guy kill with a crossbow? Or a kitchen knife? Or even a 9 mm glock as opposed to an Assault Rifle? Same in the colorado movie theater.

'Guns don't kill people' unfortunately they do. They are made to kill. They are the easiest way to kill. You don't have to think up an elaborate plan and make a bomb with fertilizer and be a bomb maker. Any psycho in the US can access a gun that can kill MANY people.

I've seen pro-gun comments like: 'the system worked because he was denied access to buying a gun, and it was actually his mom who didn't put the gun away properly'

How is that an example of the system working? It's a perfect example of the system is ultimately flawed.

Why not at least eliminate the access to assault rifles and machine guns? ban all assault rifles and rapid fire weapons so at least people have a chance in this situation. Do you really need a bazooka to protect your freedom?
One of the funniest parts about all this is that people are claiming that they are protecting their 'freedom', but they're so scared at the amount of guns out there that they've been forced to arm themselves. That's call being a slave. That's not freedom. It's bull****.
Freedom is walking around without worrying about guns like other developed countries.

Danny Ainge tried to get CP3 & David West to add to KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Just Imagine if the stars had aligned...

Re: school shooting at Newtown Conn elementary school
« Reply #209 on: December 16, 2012, 02:38:54 AM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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