Author Topic: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)  (Read 2786 times)

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Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« on: December 14, 2012, 01:26:18 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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You are Danny Ainge. 

It's the day of the 2013 Trade Deadline, February 21st.  The Celtics have gradually improved over the course of the season, and currently stand 6 games over .500 at 30-24, though you just watched your team get beaten by double digits against the finally-putting-it-together Lakers.  Your guys are fighting neck and neck for second in the Atlantic division; at this point, it's looking increasingly unlikely that the Cs will catch the Knicks, who are on pace to win 60 games.

A big part of the Celtics' improvement over the past couple of months has been Jeff Green becoming more assertive and consistent as he has gained confidence, averaging 13.5 points in 25 minutes a night off the bench on decent shooting. 

Avery Bradley's return was huge, as well, and though he hasn't quite duplicated the fiery shooting he displayed during his breakout month last season, he's shown that the shoulder surgeries aren't going to hold him back moving forward, averaging 9 points and 1.5 steals a game in 25 minutes, starting the majority of the games he's played in since his return.

Dennis Lindsey, the GM of the Utah Jazz, calls you up before the deadline and tries to sell you on a deal centered around bringing soon to be free agent Al Jefferson back to Boston.

First, he offers you:

Big Al ($15 mil)
Randy Foye ($2.5 mil)
DeMarre Carrol ($885k)

Total: 18.3 mil

In return, he asks for:

Avery Bradley ($1.6 mil)
Jeff Green ($8.4 mil)
Courtney Lee ($5 mil)
2013 1st Round Pick (likely late teens to mid 20s)

Total: $15 mil (can throw in a Collins or a Joseph to make salaries work)

Do you consider this offer?  Do you hold out for Gordon Hayward ($2.7 mil), or could you accept this deal with Foye?

It would mean moving KG back to PF, and would disrupt team chemistry a bit.  But your team isn't exactly blowing people away anyhow, despite showing improvement, and adding Big Al would give you an inside scoring presence you haven't had since a healthy Shaq played for a couple months at the start of the 2010-2011 season (Big Al is averaging about 18 points on 50% shooting), and the team looked great back then.  He would really help on the boards, too (he's grabbing 10.5 boards a game). 

If you got Hayward, he would make your starting lineup a lot bigger, too, and Hayward isn't bad on the boards, either.  Carroll isn't to be overlooked, either, as he's been fairly good in limited minutes.  Still, this would be a pretty radical change.

What do you do?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 01:31:39 AM by PhoSita »
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Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 01:29:29 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Yeah, Id probably do that, although I doubt the Jazz call it off (in your context) if Lee isn't involved, and we can make up the salaries with other less critical guys.

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Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 01:35:26 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Yeah, Id probably do that, although I doubt the Jazz call it off (in your context) if Lee isn't involved, and we can make up the salaries with other less critical guys.

We could, though it would mean throwing in at least 2 or 3 of our minimum salary guy (Barbosa, Joseph, and Collins).  I suppose that is doable, though, and you're probably right that with Burks and one of Foye / Hayward still on the team, the Jazz won't really need Lee.

Then again, my thinking is that Lee might kind of be the odd man out in the rotation anyway once Bradley comes back.

Personally I'd hesitate to make this trade, but I think I'd ultimately pull the trigger.  If the team doesn't noticeably improve, it's not like you're stuck with any bad contracts.  I think I'd hold out for Hayward, though.  Foye wouldn't cut it for me -- I'd need to get back a solid young player if I'm giving up Avery.


BTW, please feel free to call me out if this seems terribly unrealistic, but it doesn't strike me as such.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 02:21:43 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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No, because I wouldn't want Al after KG is gone.

Al Jefferson is set to be a FA this summer.  Do we want to trade Green and Bradley for a rental?  I wouldn't.

Or, do the C's resign Al to a new contract.  He would likely ask for big dollars for at least 4 years.  KG is done soon, and I don't think investing big money in him, long term, is wise.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 02:34:41 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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No, because I wouldn't want Al after KG is gone.

Al Jefferson is set to be a FA this summer.  Do we want to trade Green and Bradley for a rental?  I wouldn't.

Or, do the C's resign Al to a new contract.  He would likely ask for big dollars for at least 4 years.  KG is done soon, and I don't think investing big money in him, long term, is wise.

Well, you're locked into Jeff Green and Courtney Lee for 4 years, anyhow.  So if you're trading Big Al for them and sign him instead, that doesn't seem like your cap situation has gotten markedly worse.

Also, the whole dilemma here is whether you think the chances and degree of possible improvement are enough to make it worth the gamble.  It's definitely a win-now trade, but that makes sense.  Where is this team headed in a couple of years when Terry, Pierce, and KG are likely all done?
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 05:11:22 AM »

Online BballTim

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  I'd take Bradley, Foye and Carrol out of the deal.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 08:03:54 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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not sold on this.

Love Big Al but his D isn't where it needs to be and we have enough problems in that area.  Even if he did get the D rotations down pat, Doc's system may leave him out of rebounding position so his numbers would most likely drop and we'd still be complaining we have no rebounding. 
His contract situation for next year would be a concern too--do we commit to him for 3-4 years for major money (can we when we're tied up with a lot of the players for 2 more years). 

Don't like Foye or Carrol so that doesn't help with this deal either. 

If the situation you described is happening with the C's at that time, I'd start looking at the head coach since this roster should be performing better. (no surprise I'm not a fan of Doc)

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 08:13:47 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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You are Danny Ainge. 

It's the day of the 2013 Trade Deadline, February 21st.  The Celtics have gradually improved over the course of the season, and currently stand 6 games over .500 at 30-24, though you just watched your team get beaten by double digits against the finally-putting-it-together Lakers.  Your guys are fighting neck and neck for second in the Atlantic division; at this point, it's looking increasingly unlikely that the Cs will catch the Knicks, who are on pace to win 60 games.

A big part of the Celtics' improvement over the past couple of months has been Jeff Green becoming more assertive and consistent as he has gained confidence, averaging 13.5 points in 25 minutes a night off the bench on decent shooting. 

Avery Bradley's return was huge, as well, and though he hasn't quite duplicated the fiery shooting he displayed during his breakout month last season, he's shown that the shoulder surgeries aren't going to hold him back moving forward, averaging 9 points and 1.5 steals a game in 25 minutes, starting the majority of the games he's played in since his return.

Dennis Lindsey, the GM of the Utah Jazz, calls you up before the deadline and tries to sell you on a deal centered around bringing soon to be free agent Al Jefferson back to Boston.

First, he offers you:

Big Al ($15 mil)
Randy Foye ($2.5 mil)
DeMarre Carrol ($885k)

Total: 18.3 mil

In return, he asks for:

Avery Bradley ($1.6 mil)
Jeff Green ($8.4 mil)
Courtney Lee ($5 mil)
2013 1st Round Pick (likely late teens to mid 20s)

Total: $15 mil (can throw in a Collins or a Joseph to make salaries work)

Do you consider this offer?  Do you hold out for Gordon Hayward ($2.7 mil), or could you accept this deal with Foye?

It would mean moving KG back to PF, and would disrupt team chemistry a bit.  But your team isn't exactly blowing people away anyhow, despite showing improvement, and adding Big Al would give you an inside scoring presence you haven't had since a healthy Shaq played for a couple months at the start of the 2010-2011 season (Big Al is averaging about 18 points on 50% shooting), and the team looked great back then.  He would really help on the boards, too (he's grabbing 10.5 boards a game). 

If you got Hayward, he would make your starting lineup a lot bigger, too, and Hayward isn't bad on the boards, either.  Carroll isn't to be overlooked, either, as he's been fairly good in limited minutes.  Still, this would be a pretty radical change.

What do you do?

I just wanted to point out that 30-24 wouldn't be an improvement on our current record.

Apologies for the nit pick.
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Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 08:22:18 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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For the howevermanieth times Ive said this towards a Big Al trade... NO!

Everywhere the dude goes his team gets worse with him on it. Love the guy, great unorthodox offensive player. But he is lost on the defensive end. He is going to command a boatload of money that he doesnt deserve because he is always going to be the "put up big numbers on not very good teams" guy.
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Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 08:47:15 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I would have to shoot down that trade,

On our side
   AB is an young elite defender at the 1/2, the league is currently built on a foundation of dominate 1/2 guards. ABs skill set is highly valuable and hard to come by.
   
   Green is playing better. If you look at the SF position in tiers especially using his per 40min stats, Green is in a 3rd tier group. 1st James, Durant, Anthony 2nd Pierce, Gay, George... 3rd Deng, GREEN, Prince, Budinger... Green has room to grow into that 2nd tier and average 15+pt 6+rb 1.5stl, 1.5blks and with his size he is worth keeping with Rondo.

   Lee, im open for trading due to roster redundancy (though his size is useful)

With all that said I would trade AB and Green for the right player.... Just AL isn't that player

AL, is a ball stopper on O, not what you want with rondo. He isn't a defensive anchor, this particularly hurts as he would be our best big  post KG. 

Id rather make a play at bigs that will require less stripping of out talent

1. Okafor
2. Dalembert

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 08:51:56 AM »

Offline action781

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For the howevermanieth times Ive said this towards a Big Al trade... NO!

Everywhere the dude goes his team gets worse with him on it. Love the guy, great unorthodox offensive player. But he is lost on the defensive end. He is going to command a boatload of money that he doesnt deserve because he is always going to be the "put up big numbers on not very good teams" guy.

I feel the same way about Big Al.  I think it would cost too much $ to pay him and cost too many assets to trade away for him because of how his big numbers inflate his value.
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Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 10:14:14 AM »

Offline ssspence

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As I pointed out in my own Jazz trade thread, I think Utah is a destination that makes a lot of sense for Green should he be traded this year.

I'd rather have Millsap long term than Jefferson, but I can see Danny being interested in either if this team continues to struggle on the glass.

Millsap for Green works straight up.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 10:16:30 AM »

Online BballTim

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For the howevermanieth times Ive said this towards a Big Al trade... NO!

Everywhere the dude goes his team gets worse with him on it. Love the guy, great unorthodox offensive player. But he is lost on the defensive end. He is going to command a boatload of money that he doesnt deserve because he is always going to be the "put up big numbers on not very good teams" guy.

  I'd say that the teams Al went to getting worse had a lot more to do with losing KG or Deron/Boozer/Okur than Al's play with them. He's definitely a decent player. Not a great defender, but he's the same height as Green or Sully and he's playing center on defense. We've seen how that works out here, every time KG goes to the bench. Stick him on the court with KG/PP/Rondo/Bradley and we'd still have a top defense.

Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 10:17:58 AM »

Online wdleehi

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I am for it, but you have to find another team for Green. 



There is no point in adding Green when they already have a SF who is the same age with similar stats.  Heck, they even make almost the same amount.


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Re: Imagine the Following (Jazz Trade)
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 10:25:33 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I'd do it with Hayward in place of Foye, but I doubt the Jazz would.

I wouldn't do the deal as originally proposed.


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