Author Topic: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand  (Read 1427 times)

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Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« on: December 10, 2012, 06:19:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Elton Brand would not give us the size and length that we need down low, but he could be extremely useful to this team as a key backup for KG, a guy who could actually anchor the defense when KG is sitting and give us a solid rebounding presence down low as well.

Brand isn't what he used to be, but as he showed last year with Philly, especially in the playoffs, he's still a valuable player.  He's also got a pretty low salary and is on a Dallas team that is, as of right now, going nowhere.

If it looks like the Mavs are most likely out of the hunt for a high playoff seed and probably won't have hope of making any noise this year (as is likely the case, given the fact that Dirk won't be back until January), they might be persuaded to move Brand for some modest future value (perhaps even just a 1st round pick and some filler).

Brand is the kind of simple, calculated move that could help this team a lot without drastically shaking up the complexion of the roster, which I think is ideal.


edit: though it occurs to me that because Brand was a pickup off the amnesty wire Dallas might not be allowed to trade him this year -- can't remember the rules on that.  In which case, darn.
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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 06:25:00 PM »

Offline j804

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Ehh rather give the minutes to somebody else on our roster he's just not very good anymore


Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 06:27:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Ehh rather give the minutes to somebody else on our roster he's just not very good anymore

He's not great anymore, but he's a plus rebounder, and he's still a very good defender.  He was the anchor of an elite defensive team just last season.  We DESPERATELY need a player like that who can fill that role while KG sits.  18-20 minutes a night of Elton Brand would help this team get back to playing elite defense, and would help on the boards, too.

Offensively, he would slot pretty easily into the role that Brandon Bass already plays, plus he still has a decent, if limited, back to the basket game.

What I keep stressing with these things, though, is while people keep calling for major moves to bring in some exciting names like Gortat, Varejao, and Josh Smith, if the team makes a move this season I really think it's going to be for somebody more like Brand -- somebody that another team doesn't value as much anymore, who won't require a major roster shakeup, but who can really plug some holes for the team this season, ideally without tieing up future salary cap flexibility.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 06:33:51 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He's not great anymore, but he's a plus rebounder, and he's still a very good defender.
He's not a "plus" rebounder (that's not baseball :P). Also, he's basically Brandon Bass at this stage of his career (14% TRR for Brand vs 12% TRR for Bass; league average is 14%, league leader is Reggie Evans with 25%). So getting Brand is, at best, a lateral move at the position. No thanks.
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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 06:35:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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He's not great anymore, but he's a plus rebounder, and he's still a very good defender.
He's not a "plus" rebounder (that's not baseball :P). Also, he's basically Brandon Bass at this stage of his career -- especially given that Bass rebounded at a little higher rate last season than (15.9% vs 15.8% of all available rebounds). So getting Brand is, at best, a lateral move at the position. No thanks.

6.4 rebounds in 22 minutes.  That's better than Sullinger and Bass.

Again, the difference between him and Bass is very significant -- Brand can actually credibly play the center position, and can serve as the anchor for a defense.  Bass cannot do either of those things.

Bass is obviously overall a more valuable offensive player, but my point is they play different roles because they have different positional flexibility.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 06:44:46 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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He's not great anymore, but he's a plus rebounder, and he's still a very good defender.
He's not a "plus" rebounder (that's not baseball :P). Also, he's basically Brandon Bass at this stage of his career -- especially given that Bass rebounded at a little higher rate last season than (15.9% vs 15.8% of all available rebounds). So getting Brand is, at best, a lateral move at the position. No thanks.

6.4 rebounds in 22 minutes.  That's better than Sullinger and Bass.

Again, the difference between him and Bass is very significant -- Brand can actually credibly play the center position, and can serve as the anchor for a defense.  Bass cannot do either of those things.

Bass is obviously overall a more valuable offensive player, but my point is they play different roles because they have different positional flexibility.
It may be "better" than Bass. As indicated (see my corrected post for the right numbers), it is only marginally better. And it is by no stretch of imagination better than average.

It's not better than Sullinger, whose rate is 15.5%.

Sure, I'll have him if Dallas were giving him away, but there's no way I'm spending any significant resources on a marginal backup C upgrate. And this is likely not happening.
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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 06:47:30 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Wasn't Brand amnestied this past off-season? If so, he can't be traded until next July.
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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 06:49:20 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I don't believe that Brand can be traded until July 1, as he was claimed off of amnesty waivers.

Otherwise, I'd love to have him here.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 06:50:56 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't believe that Brand can be traded until July 1, as he was claimed off of amnesty waivers.

Otherwise, I'd love to have him here.

Ah, rats.  I had a feeling this might be the case.

Well, I guess the key inquiry then is -- who else might fit a similar profile who can actually be traded?  Another name I would think of unfortunately is another amnesty guy -- Brendan Haywood.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 06:55:03 PM »

Online Roy H.

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He's not great anymore, but he's a plus rebounder, and he's still a very good defender.
He's not a "plus" rebounder (that's not baseball :P). Also, he's basically Brandon Bass at this stage of his career -- especially given that Bass rebounded at a little higher rate last season than (15.9% vs 15.8% of all available rebounds). So getting Brand is, at best, a lateral move at the position. No thanks.

6.4 rebounds in 22 minutes.  That's better than Sullinger and Bass.

Again, the difference between him and Bass is very significant -- Brand can actually credibly play the center position, and can serve as the anchor for a defense.  Bass cannot do either of those things.

Bass is obviously overall a more valuable offensive player, but my point is they play different roles because they have different positional flexibility.
It may be "better" than Bass. As indicated (see my corrected post for the right numbers), it is only marginally better. And it is by no stretch of imagination better than average.

It's not better than Sullinger, whose rate is 15.5%.

Sure, I'll have him if Dallas were giving him away, but there's no way I'm spending any significant resources on a marginal backup C upgrate. And this is likely not happening.

Brand's total rebound rate is 16.1%, and his defensive rebound rate is 21.2%.

He'd rank 2nd on the Celts in TRB% (behind Sully's 16.5%) and would rank behind KG and Sully in DRB% (25.4% and 21.4%, respectively.)

The thing that Brand brings -- which KG does, but Sully doesn't -- is elite defense.  Brand ranked as one of the very top defenders in the league last year.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 07:10:45 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Brand's total rebound rate is 16.1%, and his defensive rebound rate is 21.2%.

He'd rank 2nd on the Celts in TRB% (behind Sully's 16.5%) and would rank behind KG and Sully in DRB% (25.4% and 21.4%, respectively.)

The thing that Brand brings -- which KG does, but Sully doesn't -- is elite defense.  Brand ranked as one of the very top defenders in the league last year.
I see slightly lower figures on Hoopdata (15.8 and 20.1), but the difference, I imagine, is immaterial.It should be noted that this is in a short sample of games, and comes on the tail end of two full seasons where he had a TRR of slightly less than 14 (13.8 and 13.9).

I imagine he's a better rebounder coming off the bench, and maybe he is still a good defender -- but I'm not mortgaging the house to bring him in. It doesn't make sense.
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Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 07:31:05 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He is a load and can be a force at times, it would add another dimension to us as a team.   Tough guy too and that could help us.

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 07:46:16 PM »

Online slamtheking

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he'd be an ok pickup but I'm hoping for someone that can legitimately play center for us.  someone bigger than Wilcox and better than Collins

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 08:05:46 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm not mortgaging the house to bring him in. It doesn't make sense.

Well, exactly.

That was the entire point of the thread -- we should be looking for guys who can make a difference without requiring us to give up major assets and shake up the roster too much.

A guy like Brand -- a solid, valuable player who could fill some needs for us who has a relatively small contract (thus easy to fit into a deal) and currently plays on a team not likely to be competing for a top spot in the playoffs -- is exactly who the Celtics should be targeting, if they're targeting anybody at all.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Modest Mid-Season Trade Target: Elton Brand
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 08:35:21 PM »

Online Kane3387

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Amnestied. No Go.

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