Author Topic: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?  (Read 3314 times)

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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 07:09:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.

He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff. 

I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.

Lakers?  Maybe too much of a circus, but Beasley seems like exactly the kind of guy the Lakers could use next to Dwight.

I don't think the Suns would be interested in a trade for Pau, obviously (nor do they have the pieces), but perhaps they could be involved as a 3rd team and get something in return for Beasley and somebody like Shannon Brown (who the Lakers sorely miss) or Jared Dudley.
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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 07:24:14 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.

He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff. 

I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.

I actually agree with you.

Its funny how many people just write off a player that's young (Beas is what, 24 now?) as damaged goods. He has a ton of talent still but needs to be around some solid vets. Just look at OJ Mayo - as recently as this summer, everyone was ready to write him off. Now he's starting to put things together in Dallas and is looking like he was worthy of his draft position.

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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 07:33:07 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.

He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff. 

I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.

Lakers?  Maybe too much of a circus, but Beasley seems like exactly the kind of guy the Lakers could use next to Dwight.

I don't think the Suns would be interested in a trade for Pau, obviously (nor do they have the pieces), but perhaps they could be involved as a 3rd team and get something in return for Beasley and somebody like Shannon Brown (who the Lakers sorely miss) or Jared Dudley.

Maybe slot Phoenix in as a third team in a deal that sends Pau to Minnesota, Beasley (and parts) to LA, and Derrick Williams back to Arizona?
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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 07:39:34 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Okay, the only player out of the new guys I would almost guarantee won't be traded, JET. He isn't going anywhere this season. Now, people who may be up for grabs... Sully (tough), Lee (I doubt him either seeing as he gave up money to be here), Bass, Melo, KJ, Collins (lol), Green (maybe the second least likely), Wilcox (doubtful b/c like Collins they are only vet mins and you could just use rookies).

The first least likely to be traded to me is AB but it's because of bias LOL. He can be traded unlike JET but it'd have to be a very good trade.

Why I think Jet won't be traded... he will be very important for us when the playoffs come, he is Ray's replacement even if we wanted both. He is by far the most clutch, big game changing player, energy guy, and 6th man we have all in one package (off the bench, where he belongs). I don't care what Green has been doing, I still think JET will be even more important for us off the bench.


Now, about the Suns, all they have going for them is their training staff/doctors and maybe the water there (Shaq went a entire season there being able to play every game but was only rested on some b2bs and that was only like 7 games or so)!

YES, THEY ARE POORLY RUN!!!
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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 07:50:35 PM »

Offline Who

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I think it's still too early to write off Beasley.

He has spent the last couple of years in some of the worst situations in the league in Phoenix and Minnesota. In each place Beasley was mismanaged by the coaching staff. 

I want to see what happens to him in a good home. Shift him back to power forward and give him a run of a extended minutes in a role where he can just focus on what he does well.
What does he do well?  He shoots a lot of contested long two's.  He is still doing that in Phoenix.  Power forward, small forward- he takes the exact same shots.

Score the ball.

Beasley is a really good scorer. He can put the ball in the hoop in a variety of a different ways. He has a post game as a power three. A face up game where he can take his opponent off the dribble. Is a very good finisher around the basket with both hands. Has a midrange shot. Has a long two point shot. Has a three point shot. Spread the floor. He can play pick and roll, pick and pop. Excellent scorer in transition for a big forward. Can make free throws but doesn't earn many trips to the FT line.

He is an efficient scorer in many of those areas but his shot distribution between those areas is poor (like you say, too many contested long twos). Even a small improvement would make a large difference to his overall scoring efficiency.

Beasley is a 4/3 who should primarily play the power forward position because he can better defend and rebound that position. His perimeter defense against small forwards is horrific and negates any positive contributions he makes offensively. His defense at the four is below average but passable and could become average with some work.

The other area for him is to become a bit better as a passer. I don't think he'll ever become a good passer but he needs to be less of a black hole than he currently is.

I think those improvements in each are achievable and realistic for Beasley.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 07:51:32 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.

Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 08:37:47 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I really have to look at that deal if I am Ainge. Personally I see Bass > Beasley but getting Gortat in a deal that doesn't send out Bradley or Sully is pretty sweet. No way Phoenix does it though in my opinion. Unless... they really like Fab Melo or REALLY want to get rid of Beasley.

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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2012, 08:44:18 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.

Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.
OJ Mayo's improved play is entirely tied to his ability to shoot above 50% from beyond the three point line. If he keeps up his pace to have the third best 3PT% ever I will be more than a little surprised since he's a middling 3 point shooter over his career.

Beasley is pretty much a lost cause at this point, doesn't know how to do anything but score a moderate amount on a not so moderate amount of shots.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 09:17:21 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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No it is Washington and then Sacramento.

I would put Charlotte, Detroit (recently), Toronto, Washington definitely, and maybe even Orlando (Howard situation and return).

Phoenix is two years removed from the WCF. They were very smart in not signing Amare to a contract (worst contract in NBA).

The hedo and childress contracts were bad, but they were able to turn the hedo contract into Gortat. The Childress contract was amnestied, but a lot of people at the time liked it. Thought it was a solid buy for how he was playing in Europe as a key guy and leader.

When you look at the return Orlando got for the best Center in basketball and all the failed players they put around Howard it was pretty bad. If not for the Kg injury they never get passed us in 2009.

The bobcats have never won a playoff game. Okafor, Morrison, May, Felton, etc. They have never hit on a lotto pick. Thomas was a disaster of a signing. No one knows what the Kings are doing. Cousins and Evans should be much better and developed. Jimmer? Come on.

Dumars has been less then solid in Detroit. Darko? 'Nuff said. Could have had a dynasty with any of those other top five picks. All that money to Ben Gordon and Villanueva. All that money to Prince. Had to dump a first to move Gordon for Maggette. Recently he has looked better in the draft with Monroe and Drummond, but those guys basically fell to him. Stucky and Knight look like solid bench guys as combo guards.

Toronto is interesting. Really looked like the NBA Europe there for a while. Bargnani was a bad first overall pick. Not getting anything for Bosh was stupid b/c everyone knew he was gone. Looks like the pick they moved for Lowry will be very high. Poor decision. 40 million to Derozan? We will see. 35 mill to Amir Johnson? Not a fan. We will see about Vallencuinas but Toronto has always been a joke since Carter left other then the one year they won the division.

Still to me Washington is the worst. Never seen a firesale like I saw after the Arenas Gun thing. Which was after the Arenas contract. Then they finally move the Arenas contract for some relief and LOL use it to acquire Okafor and Ariza? They go out and get Nene who is clearly fat and happy after his big deal. Oh and John Wall has shown very little development as "a can't miss" prospect. Vesselly was a top five pick and he is riding the pine. Maybe Beal and Wall can be special.

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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 09:32:35 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Turning Bass, Lee, and Melo into Gortat and Beasley would be pretty sweet. I know people don't like Beasley, but he is a very talented player who could possibly be a very valuable player on a good team.

Look what happened with OJ Mayo - everybody was saying how much of a better fit Lee would be than him and now Mayo is averaging over 20 pts a game on a 4 mill/yr contract over two years...I am also pretty jealous of NJ getting Blatche on a minimum deal.
OJ Mayo's improved play is entirely tied to his ability to shoot above 50% from beyond the three point line. If he keeps up his pace to have the third best 3PT% ever I will be more than a little surprised since he's a middling 3 point shooter over his career.

Beasley is pretty much a lost cause at this point, doesn't know how to do anything but score a moderate amount on a not so moderate amount of shots.

Tend to agree re: Beasley. I don't think he's likely to have some sort of revelation. If I coached him, I'd play him 12 mins per as a back-up 4, tell him if his number of rebounds, assists, blocks and steals combined don't equal his number of shot attempts on that given night he sits the next game until he does it.

I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).

I don't really see Beasley playing much. Inserting a Gortat-type player would have a tremendous trickle down effect on the Cs rotation, IMO. A 5-man FC weave of Pierce, Green, KG, Sully and Gortat would be extremely tough in the playoffs.


Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 09:35:59 PM »

Offline Who

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No it is Washington and then Sacramento.

I would put Charlotte, Detroit (recently), Toronto, Washington definitely, and maybe even Orlando (Howard situation and return).

Phoenix is two years removed from the WCF. They were very smart in not signing Amare to a contract (worst contract in NBA).
Phoenix = two years ago was when they let Steve Kerr leave and replaced him with Lon Babby (who then went out and overpaid his previous clients). They shouldn't be given credit for Kerr's successes (WCF). They were a well run franchise under Kerr and moving in a positive direction. Since then, they have imploded with numerous bad basketball decision.

Washington = excellent call. I'll put them #2 behind Phoenix instead of Sacramento and slide the Kings back down to 3rd. Very badly run front office. Don't like Ernie Grunfeld. Builds very badly balanced teams. I don't blame him for the Okafor and Ariza acquisitions though. That was clearly their owner Ted Leonsis. He was sick of losing seasons and forced his GM to fast-track the team's development. A lot like Michael Heisley did with Jerry West when he told West to make the playoff caliber team instead of a title contender. He just didn't understand how to build a team in the NBA at that time. Neither does Leonsis.

Toronto = Bryan Colangelo has been a train wreck there. He took over the team in such a strong position. An All-Star caliber big in Chris Bosh. A #1 draft pick. A load of cap space. Another All-Rookie forward in Villanueva who was reasonably well-regarded at the time. A good young guard in Calderon. And he has completely screwed the team up time and time again looking for short term solutions (band aids) to real problems. They need to fire Colangelo and start afresh with a new GM.

Charlotte = I like what they are doing. Blowing up the team and rebuilding from scratch was a brave decision and the first sign of a new dawn there. I think they are on the right track. Good job.

Orlando = first year of new GM. Too early to say. They got very little in return for Dwight but they are probably better off building with scratch than trying to build from a 30-40 win level team. So, it was an ugly moment (to lose Dwight for so little in return) but not one that will hurt them long term.

Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 09:48:47 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).


Based on the "all roads go through Miami" theory, I think Terry is the best asset on that list. I can see him winning us a couple of playoff games almost all by himself.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 09:52:20 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.

Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.

Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.

The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.

Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.

Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.

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Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 09:52:57 PM »

Offline Who

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I'd still prefer to have Gortat and Beasley over Bass and Terry on this Cs team if it meant they didn't have to give up either Sully or Bradley to get Gortat (which I personally believe they're highly unlikely to do).


Based on the "all roads go through Miami" theory, I think Terry is the best asset on that list. I can see him winning us a couple of playoff games almost all by himself.
Yeah, I agree.

I don't think Gortat will be all that valuable against Miami. I think he'll be more valuable against non-Miami teams. Teams with bigger lineups. I think his main value will be as a backup center. Less optimistic about a KG-Gortat duo against Miami. I think they can handle that well.

I think Jason Terry would make the largest contribution out of those four players in a series against Miami. He did a really good job against them in the Finals two years ago.

Re: Is PHX the worst run team in the NBA?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 09:59:45 PM »

Offline Who

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Quote
Detroit = only 4-5 GMs in the league have been as successful as Joe Dumars over the last 10-15 years. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has done a bloody lot right too. He doesn't belong on this list.

Going after Phoenix and not Detroit? I mean Dumars did more with Detroit early on, but he has also done worse since.

Darko is almost unforgivable. It's close. When you pass up on Melo, Wade, and Bosh for Darko you blow the chance at history and a dynasty. He pulled the cord too early in Detroit. They were two wins away from beating Boston and going on against the Bynum-less Lakers with HCA in the Finals. If not for Boston they probably win the title.

The next year KG goes down. Now obviously no one could have predicted that but what if Dumars kept it together one more year? Instead of trading Billups, who went on to have a career year, for Iverson he could have added a MLE guy and went for it again. They likely make the finals and potentially beat LA with the way Billups was playing.

Dumars was WAY too impulsive. Iverson was a disaster and sent home. He then impulsively signs Ben Gordon after a great playoff series against the KG-less Celtics for 55 million. He has since had to trade a first round pick to dump that deal. Villaunueva is a disaster.

Dumars is VERY overrated and Detroit has been horrible ever since they traded Billups for Iverson.

1 NBA Title
2 Finals Appearances
6 Conference Finals
7 Fifty win seasons

How many GMs have accomplishments like that on their resume?

Danny Ainge. RC Buford. Mitch Kupchak. Pat Riley. Donnie Nelson. Five guys in the entire NBA. That's it. Joe Dumars has been at worst the 6th most successful GM in the NBA over the last 10-15 years.

 

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