Author Topic: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league  (Read 3365 times)

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Offline CelticG1

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2012, 07:16:55 PM »
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He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.

Are you from Syracuse because his stats do not reflect this nor does his play although I wish he did those things and wish him well.

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Anyone every heard of Greg Stiemsma?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/s/stiemgr01d.html

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/

I have heard of him and guess what he has better stats than Melo in the D league.   Bet you would not have guessed that.   Much better rebounding, PPG and blocks than Melo.

Steimsma was pretty well seasoned when he was in the D-league.  Apples and oranges in the sense that Melo is becoming a player while Steimsma was hoping that his ceiling would be enough.  Steimsma is a servicable 5-15 minutes guy -- unlikely to get much better than that.  Melo has an unknown ceiling (not to be confused with an unlimited ceiling).

Yeah i understand that. My point is we threw pretty much an unknown guy, into the mix for 10 minutes a game and a produced at a respectable rate for what he was.

No reason to think Fab is incapable of playing some decent defense and a couple easy buckets from Rondo 10 minutes a game.

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2012, 07:19:49 PM »
Yeah i understand that. My point is we threw pretty much an unknown guy, into the mix for 10 minutes a game and a produced at a respectable rate for what he was.

No reason to think Fab is incapable of playing some decent defense and a couple easy buckets from Rondo 10 minutes a game.
Precisely my point. Let's hope that the game has slowed down for him at least to the level at which he's mediocre in team defense. Shot blocking and charge taking will do the rest.
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Offline Neurotic Guy

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2012, 07:22:22 PM »
Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
I expect him not to be a liability in all phases of the game that are not a wide open dunk. He doesn't have to be Shaq, he can just be Glen Davis or Leon Powe. But he isn't.

He's not "very good" as an 8th/9th player. As a matter of fact, it's probably a stretch to call him mediocre. Someone like Taj Gibson on the Bulls, Rasheed Wallace on the Knicks, or Spencer Hawes on the 76ers is a good 8th/9th player.

Wilcox is giving you the typical "10th guy to borderline DNP" type of performance.The problem is, we cannot afford this, mostly because he's the primary backup of a guy that's playing 28 minutes per contest.

I hate to admit it (because I really like Wilcox), but I think Kozlodev may be correct.  I do think Wilcox is a decent 10-15 minutes guy,  but I think the back-up 5 is a big need for improvement.  Starting 4 and back-up 5 are my top choices for upgrade.  I think Sully should get a shot at the starting 4.  Melo isn't the answer at back-up 5. I think Wilcox would be great in spot minutes, match-up situations (with Rondo) and GREAT insurance for a short-term injury.  But I'd like someone better especially given KG's minutes limitations.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2012, 07:29:02 PM »
I want him to be able to succeed and contribute it could help us, I just don't think he is ready at this point.   

Online Celtics18

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2012, 07:36:06 PM »
If Fab Melo can come to Boston and be more of a positive on the floor than Chris Wilcox, I'm 100% for that.  I'm generally an optimist, but I don't see that happening.

I happen to like what Chris Wilcox brings to the team, though.  I've wanted to see a big who runs the floor and finishes well to run with Rondo for quite some time.  Wilcox fits that bill. 

From what I've seen he's also a better defender than many are giving him credit for.  He's not a physical guy, but he moves well and can fill the lane and cover ground.

Anyway, let's see what Melo can do.  Don't be too disappointed, though, if the young Brazilian doesn't get any minutes with the A squad, folks. 
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Offline crimson_stallion

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2012, 07:52:49 AM »
ast time I checked the Off Ratings and Def Ratings Wilcox was one of only 5 players who had a positive net rating - from memory his +3 rating was 3rd on the team after KG and Terry.

His def rating was slightly worse then bass while his off rating was massively better.

Bass by comparison was our only starter with a negative net rating.

These numbers aren't a be-all-end-all but they do tell SOMETHING.  Wilcox is doing SOMETHING right because unlike Barbosa, Lee, Green and Sullinger we aren't at a negative when he's on the court.

I have to say, Wilcox seems to do more than the box score suggests.  When he comes in he plays hard, and he's always out running on the break.  One extra man means the fast break is often 3-on-1 which forces teams to try to decode who to cover - if they leave Wilcox open Rondo will lob and he's practically a guaranteed finish, so he draws attention and it opens up the break for the other two guys.  Simply having the effort level to run the floor can do good things.

Also his finishing isn't just dunks.  If he has the ball anywhere within the paint he's almost a guaranteed finish.  He's shooting 75% on shots inside the restricted area, but he's also shooting 75% on shots in the paint (but outside the restricted area.  Unless he's found jordanesque dunks from the free throw line, he's finishing with more than just dunks.  In the last fee games alone I've seen him finish with some very crafty double clutch layups that very few 6'10" guys of his build has the agility to finish.

Plus he just plays hard, and sometimes his energy alone seems to be contagious for the other guys on the team.

His defense varies from above average at tines to mediocre at others. Given the
umber of poor defenders on this team he's notucj worse than any of our other bigs not names KG.  He's certainly been better defensively than Green, Pierce or Collins.

Last season he was a solid rebounder (about 14% rebound rate) but this season its dropped to about.  Hopefully hell pick that up.

As for Fab I think there's a good chance he'll get a quick run here and there to see what he can do.  Anybody is an upgrade over Collins and we need both size and shotblockibg.

Online pearljammer10

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2012, 08:19:34 AM »
Jeez, what are you expecting from him? To be Shaq? He is a very good F-C for a 8th/9th player on a contending team. He fills his role excellently and does nothing more or less than expected of him. He catches dunks, hustles and brings speed, athleticism and energy to the team on the court.
I expect him not to be a liability in all phases of the game that are not a wide open dunk. He doesn't have to be Shaq, he can just be Glen Davis or Leon Powe. But he isn't.

He's not "very good" as an 8th/9th player. As a matter of fact, it's probably a stretch to call him mediocre. Someone like Taj Gibson on the Bulls, Rasheed Wallace on the Knicks, or Spencer Hawes on the 76ers is a good 8th/9th player.

Wilcox is giving you the typical "10th guy to borderline DNP" type of performance.The problem is, we cannot afford this, mostly because he's the primary backup of a guy that's playing 28 minutes per contest.

I hate to admit it (because I really like Wilcox), but I think Kozlodev may be correct.  I do think Wilcox is a decent 10-15 minutes guy,  but I think the back-up 5 is a big need for improvement.  Starting 4 and back-up 5 are my top choices for upgrade.  I think Sully should get a shot at the starting 4.  Melo isn't the answer at back-up 5. I think Wilcox would be great in spot minutes, match-up situations (with Rondo) and GREAT insurance for a short-term injury.  But I'd like someone better especially given KG's minutes limitations.

Obviously we can upgrade at the back up five but you could say that about any of our positions. Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game. He is a role player, who doesnt need the ball to effect the game positively. Yet when he gets it, he is putting it in the bucket 70% of the time. Can we upgrade? Sure. But why knock the guys performance when he is doing exactly what he is asked and is doing it pretty well.
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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:35 AM »
Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game.
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2012, 01:24:35 PM »
Wilcox does exactly what we need him to do in 15 - 20 minutes a game.
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.

Chris Wilcox gets 1.2 blocks per 36 minutes.  That's not elite by any stretch, but it happens to be the best per minute shot blocking number on the team.  And, it certainly qualifies as "occasionally" blocking a shot. 

I agree that his rebounding needs to improve, but considering that his rebounding rate is at a career low, I'm guessing he should be able to bump those numbers up to at least respectability with continued playing time. 

Of course, Chris Wilcox plays defense.  I guess some of us just disagree on how effective it's been. 

And, he's an extremely efficient scorer.  Not only that, but the team scores at a very high rate when he's on the floor.  I know that's completely meaningless to you, but half the game is about scoring points, while the other half is about stopping the other team from scoring points.

You need to be able to do both to be a good basketball team. 
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Offline RyNye

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2012, 01:34:47 PM »
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.

Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.

Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2012, 01:49:26 PM »
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.

Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.

Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).
Big man defense is largely defined by the ability to hold your ground under the basket and rotate in team defense -- and Wilcox is deficient in both.

For what it's worth, these numbers indicate his shot blocking is horrible, and his ability to get steals -- average, at best. The average center who plays 10 or more minutes averages close to 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals per 48 minutes.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »
I'll argue that statement. We need the backup C to play defense, rebound, and occasionally block a shot -- and Wilcox does none of these.

Wilcox gets around 1.5 blocks per 48 minutes, which isn't spectacular, but is adequate for a back-up. He also gets 1.1 steals per 48, which shows his defense isn't too shabby. While this season his rebounding is down, historically he has been an above average rebounder, and there is reason to believe that he will continue to be.

Furthermore, he doesn't turn the ball over a lot and scores extremely efficiently (his stats this season may be inflated by alley-oops, but look at his track record ... well above average TS and PPS his entire career).
Big man defense is largely defined by the ability to hold your ground under the basket and rotate in team defense -- and Wilcox is deficient in both.

For what it's worth, these numbers indicate his shot blocking is horrible, and his ability to get steals -- average, at best. The average center who plays 10 or more minutes averages close to 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals per 48 minutes.

You may not have completely made up that number about the average center averaging 2.5 blocks per 48 minutes, but it sounds pretty far fetched to me.  Who knows? Maybe the Dwight Howards, Roy Hibberts, and Javale McGees of the league skew the numbers enough so that's true. 

In any case, here are the names of some other NBA centers playing at least 10 minutes per game who average 1.3 blocks or less per 36 minutes:

Tyson Chandler: 0.9
Kevin Garnett: 0.8
Anderson Varejao: 0.5
Al Horford: 1.0
Al Jefferson: 1.2
Demarcus Cousins: 0.7
Greg Monroe: 0.8
Chris Kaman: 1.2
Nikola Pekovic: 1.0
JJ Hickson: 0.8
Andre Blatche: 1.0
Tiago Splitter: 1.3
Omer Asik: 1.3
Kendrick Perkins: 1.3
Enes Kanter: 1.3

I can't guarantee that this is a complete list of all centers playing more than 10 MPGs who average roughly the same or less blocks per minutes as Chris Wilcox.  Those were just some of the notable names that jumped out at me. 

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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2012, 02:49:12 PM »
I'm not making up anything. Hoopdata can give you an average league value broken down by position and minimum amount of minutes played. I just converted the 1.99 per 40 minutes into an approximate per-48 value.

For that matter, it's worth noting the numbers of Wilcox are even less flattering, given that centers with 25+ minutes average ~1.75 blocks per 40, which indicates that players in Wilcox's minute range (10-20) likely average a much higher number of blocks per minute than him (sadly, the intefrace doesn't allow to pull a range with a bottom and a top value).
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2012, 03:22:17 PM »
Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.

Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.

Offline Chris

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2012, 04:02:57 PM »
Wilcox is not a center. He is a power forward.

Considering his limitations, he is doing a fine job as a makeshift backup center for Boston and better than anyone else on the roster can.

While you are not wrong, a large portion of the "center" minutes across the league are played by power forwards these days.  So, it makes it a little less relevant.

 

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