Author Topic: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league  (Read 8301 times)

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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.

He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).

I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.

I'm very impressed by Chris Wilcox's shooting percentage.  It is true that a majority of his baskets are on wide open dunks, but he puts himself in a position to get those wide open dunks through his ability to run the floor, not just fast, but smart as well.  He's agile and he knows when to cut to the rim and has good timing on the pick and lob. 

Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks.  Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks.  Not Chris.  He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.

His rebounding isn't great, but I've definitely seen improvement on his pick and roll and help defense.

My conclusion: Chris Wilcox is far from terrible.  On the contrary, he's giving this team some very productive play, and some much needed size and athleticism off the bench. 

I just want to add that he's got a ridiculously high offensive rating of 126 and a very respectable defensive rating of 104.  I know full well that those numbers aren't necessarily completely indicative of what a player brings to the court, but, on the other hand, it's hard to say that he hurts the team when he's out there when considering those numbers. 

A common mantra seems to be that we completely fall apart when KG leaves the floor.  Often times when KG leaves the floor, Chris Wilcox is the guy replacing him, though.  Considering those efficiency numbers when Chris is on the court, it would seem that he's doing a nice job filling his role.   
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 03:46:20 PM by Celtics18 »
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 03:43:43 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.

He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).

I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.

I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.

But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.

If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.

Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 03:45:34 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks.  Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks.  Not Chris.  He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2012, 03:46:33 PM »

Online scaryjerry

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Wilcox has been fine if only for his running the floor and chemistry with rondo catching/finishing around the rim....don't know what you're expecting from him but I highly highly doubt fab does a thing to take wilcoxs job

Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »

Online Who

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I don't expect Doc to play Fab Melo.

I'd like to see Fab Melo get a run of games (10-15 games of around 10mpg) but I have no complaints if Fab Melo doesn't get it. He is very raw.

Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 03:48:16 PM »

Offline Chris

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Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.

Oh yeah, he is absolutely the obvious upgrade spot (well, Bass is the obvious upgrade spot, but you would hope you could get someone who could then push Wilcox out of the rotation).  But you don't upgrade with a raw rookie.

Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 03:52:43 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks.  Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks.  Not Chris.  He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.

I think you think that being a good floor runner, pick and roller, and at the rim finisher at 6'11" is easier than it actually is.  What Chris Wilcox does well is a skill that not many NBA bigs can do as well as him. 

I tend to agree that he's at his best when he has Rondo with him, but, luckily, he has Rondo with him most of the time. 
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2012, 03:52:50 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.

Oh yeah, he is absolutely the obvious upgrade spot (well, Bass is the obvious upgrade spot, but you would hope you could get someone who could then push Wilcox out of the rotation).  But you don't upgrade with a raw rookie.
Well, no, Garnett is the obivious upgrade spot if you can get Bill Russell in his prime :P

But of the four rotation bigs, I see Wilcox as the only one who hurts your team more than he helps. Sure, if you can get Kevin Love to start in Bass' spot, be my guest -- but I don't think that's the point here.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 04:00:05 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Jason Collins, Darko Milicic, or Fab Melo wouldn't be able to finish on those dunks.  Many bigs are like bulls in a china shop trying to carve space through the lane off picks.  Not Chris.  He knows how to put himself in a position to finish and how to finish.
You don't need to "carve space" when there's noone within 5 feet of you. And that's how most of the scoring comes from Chris Wilcox.

I think you think that being a good floor runner, pick and roller, and at the rim finisher at 6'11" is easier than it actually is.  What Chris Wilcox does well is a skill that not many NBA bigs can do as well as him. 

I tend to agree that he's at his best when he has Rondo with him, but, luckily, he has Rondo with him most of the time.
Chris Wilcox is not 6'11. He is quite liberally listed at 6'10, and is in reality closer to 6'9 (he measured 6'8.25 barefoot, 6'9.5 with shoes in predraft camp).

So he's basically the size of Shane Battier, who is considered a combo forward. If he were 6'11, we wouldn't be needing a real backup C.

Also, I appreciate full well how difficult it may be to run the floor at his size. But you can't convince me that two dunks are enough to warrant playing time for a center that doesn't do anything else reasonably well.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 04:06:20 PM »

Offline BballTim

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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.

Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday.  He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.

Makes sense to me... Since when has Wilcox been preforming poorly? He missed a few games cause of sickness and when he got healthy again he went right back to doing what hes been doing for us all season.
Since forever? Right now, outside of the wide-open dunk, he doesn't do anythign at a rotation-caliber NBA level: doesn't have any offensive moves, is poor defensively, is slow on rotations, doesn't really rebound, doesn't block shots.

Sadly, his only competition, Collins, doesn't do _anything_ worthy of a rotation spot, so Wilcox gets the minutes.

It may well be the case that Melo will be sent back down right away, but we _do_ need all the help we can get at the position right now. Part of this may be Wilcox playing out of position, or the fact he's coming off of a heart surgery, so I'm not going to hold his performance against him. But the situation going forward is not sustainable with him as the primary C backup.

  Whatever you think of his individual skills, Wilcox seems to fill his role of helping to stem the tide with KG on the bench. On a per48 minute basis, we're a -9.4 when KG's been on the bench, a total of 400 minutes. Wilcox has played 250 of those minutes, and we're a -0.8 or so per game in that time. So we play great when KG's in, we play almost even when KG's out but Wilcox is in, and we get killed when both are out.

Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 04:09:41 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Whatever you think of his individual skills, Wilcox seems to fill his role of helping to stem the tide with KG on the bench. On a per48 minute basis, we're a -9.4 when KG's been on the bench, a total of 400 minutes. Wilcox has played 250 of those minutes, and we're a -0.8 or so per game in that time. So we play great when KG's in, we play almost even when KG's out but Wilcox is in, and we get killed when both are out.
Yes, I've already stipulated he's the best option on our team for the backup center slot. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement. And yes, I'm not surprised we get killed when the froncourt consists of Bass/Collins, Bass/Sullinger, or Sullinger/Collins.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 04:10:54 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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You're being quite liberal with what "recently" means. He's been great in the last 3 games at the very least.

He plays his role quite well, and makes quite good on his opportunities, 70%+ FG I won't cry too much about it on his limited opportunities.
I don't know, all I see is consistenly late rotations, getting pushed around on defense, and no rebounding to speak of. And this _is_ in the last three games. 10 rebounds and 9 fouls for that stretch is just bad (for what it's worth, it's been like that all season: 43 and 41, respectively).

I am particularly unimpressed by the shooting percentage. The guy takes 2 and a half shots per game, on average, and the overwhelming majority of these are wide open dunks.

I'm just saying that he's been great in the role he plays. I certainly see he needs to improve his rotations, but I haven't seen them being as egrogious as you do. I'll pay a little more attention.

But again, he has quite the limited role, he's not hurting you on offense, and I don't think he's hurting you that much on defense either, though certainly could be better.

If anything, I'd like to see him rebound better, but I think calling him playing poorly is quite the stretch. For that matter, I think he fits really well when he's playing with our starters. His problems are more noticeable when you have also Sully/Bass on the floor since they all have their defensive problems.

Of all the bigs sans Garnett, he's been the most consistent for us on both sides of the floor, but he doesn't bring much, he just fits and enables us to have something that resembles a competent rotation among our bigs.
Maybe I'm exaggerating. But at some point, I caught myself thinking, "Wow, you can't keep Wilcox on the floor when Rondo is off, because there's noone to give him wide open bunnies, and he's such a liability in all other phases of the game". In any case, he strikes me as the obvious upgrade slot in our lineup. We'll see.

He also does well I feel playing off Pierce. That said, he is indeed the slot for upgrade, but I don't see it as a cause of poor play, just merely that we need someone who can play center at better capacity. Whatever I may feel, Wilcox is better suited as a PF.

Don't know what that would mean for Bass, and Sully if we indeed find that big man upgrade.

Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 04:22:00 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.

Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday.  He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris.  Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time.  I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment,"  a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 04:28:15 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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On cue, caused by the extremely poor performance of Wilcox. We need all the help we can get there.

Ummm, I think the only cue is that the C's have 3 days off in a row, for him to practice with the team, and the Red Claws are off until Friday.  He will be back in Maine on Friday, I imagine.
I agree with Chris.  Wilcox looks to me to be doing well with his recuperation, as does Jeff Green...getting stronger all the time.  I don't think Melo was brought back as "punishment,"  a "scare tactic," or even to potentially stay with the main club...simply to get him some practice time and let him bond a little with the main team during these few off days for both.
I think they brought him up because it's a good chance to give him a long look. But if he shows even a rudimentary capability to participate in team defense, he may not be going back.
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Re: C's recall Fab Melo from D-league
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 04:28:59 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Celtics must need someone to pass out water to other team mates is only reason they recall Fab
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