Author Topic: Stat Check -- Turnovers  (Read 976 times)

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Stat Check -- Turnovers
« on: December 07, 2012, 10:35:50 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:48:57 PM by vinnie »

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 10:57:03 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
yeah, he's been brutal this year.  he's making Ray look like Marques Haynes.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 10:58:43 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Should let the Jet handle the ball instead.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 11:16:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Pierce is "THE KING" of mishandled balls, throwing the ball away, dribbling off his foot , out of bounds....you name it .  Pierce alone seems to be spotting the other team 6 points a game with his highschool grade turn overs

Pierce is down right clumsey looking, slow and TOO " SO WHAT" or careless with the ball. His passes are OFF, he is telegraphing his passes , I can see them turnovers comming BEFROE he releases....  ::) ::)

Can Pierce walk and still chew gum anymore.

I'm for starting Green. to at least see what happens ...maybe Pierce can get more sleep or rest and have better energy OFF THE BENCH/


I almost dread seeing Pierce touch the ball, worse than Fab Melo.


Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 11:43:33 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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paul does turnover the rock alot
but most of the time its when the team is sinkin
and he finds away to get an ez bucket or to the free throw line.

he is tryin to win games

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 12:06:53 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Some of Pierce's game should shift to being more of a spot-up three point shooter.
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Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 11:14:22 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 11:21:25 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

That's simply false. This team is littered with players who can do damage with the ball in their hands, but they're not given the chance... their role has been completely restrained and limited.

Green, Terry, Lee, and KG all are more than capable of handling the ball more than they have been and be productive.

Pierce has been too much of a ballhog this year for my taste, there's no need for it.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 11:24:33 AM »

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

That's simply false. This team is littered with players who can do damage with the ball in their hands, but they're not given the chance... their role has been completely restrained and limited.

Green, Terry, Lee, and KG all are more than capable of handling the ball more than they have been and be productive.

Pierce has been too much of a ballhog this year for my taste, there's no need for it.

I don't like Courtney Lee trying to create off the dribble.

I agree that Jason Terry and Jeff Green have been underutilized as creators.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 11:33:44 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

That's simply false. This team is littered with players who can do damage with the ball in their hands, but they're not given the chance... their role has been completely restrained and limited.

Green, Terry, Lee, and KG all are more than capable of handling the ball more than they have been and be productive.

Pierce has been too much of a ballhog this year for my taste, there's no need for it.

I don't like Courtney Lee trying to create off the dribble.

I agree that Jason Terry and Jeff Green have been underutilized as creators.

Well, I'm certainly not campaigning to play through Lee, but I think there's room for more touches to come to him, and once in a while do some pick and pop/rolls with him.

I don't think our team needs to keep the ball in Rondo's hands to be effective, nor in Pierce's hands. In fact, it is becoming counter-productive many a times.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 11:44:09 AM »

Offline vinnie

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

No need to be deeper. Think this clearly shows that Pierce is a turnover machine and need to handle the ball less.

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 12:46:58 PM »

Online Celtics18

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Paul Pierce has 50 turnovers this year, only 5 fewer than Rajon Rondo who has the ball in his hands almost all of the time. Pierce needs to stop handling the ball. He is an absolute turnover machine and that is killing this team.

Pierce can still go to the hoop and he can still get a lot of shots, but he absolutely should not be handling the ball and trying to dribble by guys outside the arc. I know Pierce is not a point guard, but he has 62 assists and 50 turnovers! Besides Rondo, no one else is in the same stratosphere has Pierce.
Pierce handles the ball a lot because besides Rondo there is no one else who can be trusted with the ball.  The fact that he turns over the ball a lot is in part due to him being double- and triple-teamed by opponents. This makes sense as a defensive strategy.

I came to this thread hoping for a little bit deeper statistical dive.  ???

No need to be deeper. Think this clearly shows that Pierce is a turnover machine and need to handle the ball less.

I don't think it proves that at all.  Reading some of these posts, one would think that Paul is averaging about four turnovers a game.  In fact, he's averaging 2.6 turnovers a game with an A/TO ratio of about 1.27 per game.  While I'd love to see those numbers improve, these are by no means atrocious numbers for a high usage, top small forward. 

For comparison, here are some numbers of some other top small forwards:

Anthony:  3.3 TOPG, 0.72 A/TO
Deng: 2.7 TOPG, 1.07 A/TO
Gay: 2.5 TOPG, 1.0 A/TO
Durant: 3.3 TOPG, 1.33 A/TO
Kirilenko: 2.6 TOPG, 1.38 A/TO
Batum: 2.5 TOPG, 1.28 A/TO
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Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 12:55:11 PM »

Offline cman88

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i think the team needs to cut Pierce's minutes down to around 28 like KG has been getting and give Green about 30mpg. and just use pierce differently...use him off the ball/off screens. turnovers usually result from Pierce taking the ball at the key and trying to do something himself

we HAVE guys who can handle the ball in Terry/Green...Terry made a career running the pick & roll/pop with Dirk in dallas. Why not put the ball in his hands more?

Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2012, 01:04:06 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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i think the team needs to cut Pierce's minutes down to around 28 like KG has been getting and give Green about 30mpg. and just use pierce differently...use him off the ball/off screens. turnovers usually result from Pierce taking the ball at the key and trying to do something himself

we HAVE guys who can handle the ball in Terry/Green...Terry made a career running the pick & roll/pop with Dirk in dallas. Why not put the ball in his hands more?

I can agree with this. Pierce is playing too many minutes in long stretches. Cut him to 30 or 32, let him get his legs under him and save for the playoffs.
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Re: Stat Check -- Turnovers
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2012, 01:13:05 PM »

Online Celtics18

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i think the team needs to cut Pierce's minutes down to around 28 like KG has been getting and give Green about 30mpg. and just use pierce differently...use him off the ball/off screens. turnovers usually result from Pierce taking the ball at the key and trying to do something himself

we HAVE guys who can handle the ball in Terry/Green...Terry made a career running the pick & roll/pop with Dirk in dallas. Why not put the ball in his hands more?

I can agree with this. Pierce is playing too many minutes in long stretches. Cut him to 30 or 32, let him get his legs under him and save for the playoffs.

Thirded.  With Jeff Green starting to look better, I think Doc should be able to start keeping Paul to around 30 MPG. 
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