Author Topic: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic  (Read 3032 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Moranis

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8907
  • Tommy Points: 398
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2012, 02:48:32 PM »
I caught a part of espn first take yesterday and they were outright mocking Kevin durant for saying Larry bird is a player he likes, and wants to be/play like and enjoys watching old film on.....I was generally embarrassed and was impressed by durants quote and respect for a legend many people disregard these days. Smh even baffled why he wouldn't want to model after Kobe.  ::) 8) .

That said I'm not sure anyone thinks hes better than magic
Man this is the other thing that i was disgusted by. Every basketball analyst fails to mention Larry when mentioning how Jordan was surpassing Magic. Like that was his only obstacle to being the best in the game. Are you kidding me? The Celtics are the most continually disrespected franchise in the league.

I mean on first take they were actually saying things like "Larry was a bad boy". Like that even needs saying? What are these guys smoking?

Every time the media compares someone to Larry Bird, hes white. Doesnt matter what his game is like, if he can shoot and hes white, hes like Larry Bird. Dirk can shoot? Oh hes like larry Bird. Kevin Love can shoot? Oh hes like Larry Bird. Even if thats the only part of their game that resembles Larry. They cant bear to compare a black player to Larry. I have though for a long time that Durant is the most like Larry since Larry and even he thinks it (he still has to be a way better defender, passer, and even rebounder). But the media doesnt feel comfortable comparing a black player to a white player.
the reality is by the time Jordan was ready to be in the discussion Bird and the Celtics were an afterthought.  The Pistons and Lakers were the teams to beat, and those were the teams that Jordan had to get by when he was truly ready to do it.  Bird's injuries made the Celtics less relevant at the very end of the 80's and the Celtics weren't a legit contender at all in the 90's.  Sure if everything went right they would have had a shot, but they need everything to go their way to get through the Bulls, Pistons, and Lakers, and as we saw that just didn't happen.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Offline ben

  • Brandon Bass
  • Posts: 456
  • Tommy Points: 43
    • perkinsben
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2012, 02:58:29 PM »
Kobe is a great player, but I do not understand how anyone can rank him above Shaq.  Shaq in his prime was Dominant, and lead to 3 champs.  Shaq earned another title with some help from Wade in his prime (help from refs).   Kobe in his prime was not dominant, besides  his 80 point game against toronto in the regular season.  Kobe got 3 titles with the help of Shaq, and Kobe actually hit his prime when the lakers were very bad overall.  Then kobe got a title in 2009 when the best team in the nba (celtics) had there best player injured (garnett), and then 2010 he barely won the title with a lot of help from Gasol who performed even better than kobe in the finals that year.
 
I never looked at Kobe as being dominant.  The times he has been the best player in the nba, players like Durant, lebron, Pierce, Garnett, Duncan, were always right behind him (sometimes in front).  When Shaq was dominant there was really no player close to affecting the game the way he did. 

Kobe is great, Shaq was better. 

Offline aporel#18

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2179
  • Tommy Points: 155
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 04:38:52 PM »
This starts to look a bit like RealGM general board... ;)

Whatever ESPN is saying must be wrong (ACF you got a TP), just because they act like basketball and the NBA were born when MJ started to win some playoff games. Then, you have the bias about current player, and so you have them talking Co-B Bryant into the top 10 or even top 5 all-time ranking. No way.

The GOAT is Bill Russell, by a lot. He changed the NCAA and he changed the NBA in his rookie season, and he has 11 rings. And not only that.

After him, I'd put Wilt because in terms of individual performance and dominance, he was the best. He didn't have more success just because of Bill Russell, that talks about Bill Russell's greatness and GOAT status.

Then you have MJ, Bird, Kareem and Magic. MJ won more than the other guys, but he had Stern, BSPN and Nike to pave his way. You put the other 3 in Jordan's position and they'd have win the same if not more.

Next tier, Mikan, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan. All dominant bigmen, leading their teams to multiple titles.

Then you have Cousy, Hondo, Cowens, Isiah Thomas, Oscar Robertson, Doctor J, Baylor, Jerry West, and some other great players. You can put Co-B (and KG) here, and he'll be amongst the elite of the NBA. He doesn't belong higher, but I'll concede him the benefit of belonging here.

Following Shaq's lead wasn't that hard to do, even D-Wade could do it with some Stern help. And Pau was key for his other 2 titles, alongside KG's injury, Perk's injury and Joey Crawford et al. big performances.

Being the jerk Co-B is, and playing for the Fakers, that's being pretty generous.

Go Celtics!

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10842
  • Tommy Points: 2120
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 05:08:47 PM »
Based on superficial numbers, the media has a great case. but I dont think its as strong as the numbers might suggest.

Kobe is difficult to gauge. despite his MVP and 5 titles and memorable performances and scorig acumen, Kobe still played with Shaq, when Shaq was the best player in the NBA. Never was Bird, Magic, or MJ the second best player on their own team.

But it's not like they did it alone either. We all know Larry's supporting all-star casts, but MJ had Pippen and Rodman for 3 titles, Magic had what, 3 other HOFers for 3 of his titles?

But none of them had a player who was as dominant as Shaq. And, in an expanded league. I don't think it's wrong to say Kobe is in Magic and Larry's class, but to say with certainty that he's better, erroneous.

Wow..in that case, Hakeem was truly dominant.

Did he even have a HOFer on his HOU squads that he won back-back rings with? I know he had Kenny Smith, and he was a very good player, but I don't remember him being in the HOF.

Hakeem had Otis Thorpe, too...but besides a few ASGs, he's not in the HOF, either.

Hakeem Olajuwon was just dominant..he is one of the few Bigs that gets respect from Shaq.

There will never be another Hakeem.
CelticsBlog 2013 Historical Draft Seattle Supersonics: Coach: Jerry Sloan

C- Bill Walton/James "Buddha" Edwards/Danny Schayes/Caldwell Jones
PF-Buck Williams/Caldwell Jones/Danny Schayes
SF-Adrian Dantley/Ricky Pierce/Greg Ballard
SG-Eddie Johnson/Ricky Pierce/Trent Tucker
PG-Maurice "Mo" Cheeks/Lionel Hollins

Offline alajet

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 790
  • Tommy Points: 54
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2012, 05:27:24 PM »
Your greatness can be measured by the ones you defeat to earn that greatness.
And for me, Kobe didn't have such an opposition in years to be considered in Larry and Magic's class.
He dominated his generation, but that's pretty much it. Legacy's aren't born out of nowhere.

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2463
  • Tommy Points: 361
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2012, 06:38:53 PM »
I'm biased, which everyone knows... BUT if Shaq isn't ahead of Kobe then I don't know what everyone was/are watching! If Shaq isn't top 5/10 then Kobe sure as heck isn't! Are we watching these guys or what??? 0.0

Someone needs to do a serious poll, who would you take in their primes, Shaq or Kobe? If Kobe can't beat Shaq in that regard then he isn't even top 10 much less better than Magic or Bird!

I can't even believe people were serious when saying this! I can't!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Online Celtics4ever

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6643
  • Tommy Points: 410
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2012, 06:42:32 PM »
The media ( and if it's media affiliated with the NBA in any way especially) usually promotes current players.  I see it as marketing.   No way today's guys were as good fundamentally or shooting wise as the eighty's guys and they could hand check back then, fight with impunity and hold jerseys.  Athletically, they are better but skill wise, I just don't see it.

Rick Mahorn would leave Pau Gasol or guys of that ilk in a bloody pulp on the floor.  McHale would be out of the league for the Rambis clothesline.   Guys today are wimps who don't play hurt.

I think this is true outside of sports too.   Guys today are a softer than guys from the past.  I watch my son play and he is pretty old school but the majority of the guys he plays with are what I would call a wussy!

Kobe could not guard Magic but Magic could guard him.  Kobe isn't as good as Jordan.   Bird was a better all around player than Kobe especially shooting, leadership and rebounding.   I would want Bird to take a shot with my life on the line over Kobe even to this day.

Online BballTim

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21116
  • Tommy Points: 944
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2012, 06:46:50 PM »
Based on superficial numbers, the media has a great case. but I dont think its as strong as the numbers might suggest.

Kobe is difficult to gauge. despite his MVP and 5 titles and memorable performances and scorig acumen, Kobe still played with Shaq, when Shaq was the best player in the NBA. Never was Bird, Magic, or MJ the second best player on their own team.

But it's not like they did it alone either. We all know Larry's supporting all-star casts, but MJ had Pippen and Rodman for 3 titles, Magic had what, 3 other HOFers for 3 of his titles?

But none of them had a player who was as dominant as Shaq. And, in an expanded league. I don't think it's wrong to say Kobe is in Magic and Larry's class, but to say with certainty that he's better, erroneous.

Wow..in that case, Hakeem was truly dominant.

Did he even have a HOFer on his HOU squads that he won back-back rings with? I know he had Kenny Smith, and he was a very good player, but I don't remember him being in the HOF.

Hakeem had Otis Thorpe, too...but besides a few ASGs, he's not in the HOF, either.

Hakeem Olajuwon was just dominant..he is one of the few Bigs that gets respect from Shaq.

There will never be another Hakeem.

  Drexler.

Offline relja

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 346
  • Tommy Points: 25
  • Sullinger
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2012, 06:51:38 PM »
I know it's debatable, but I consider Iverson to be among the all-time greats. Never once a little guy dominated that much. He brought the Sixers back to life, and he didn't have any All-Stars beside him for most of his career, yet he still made a push for the Finals, won MVP, led the league in scoring and in steals several times.

If he lasted longer in the league and practiced more, he would have been greater than Kobe.

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10842
  • Tommy Points: 2120
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2012, 06:57:14 PM »
Based on superficial numbers, the media has a great case. but I dont think its as strong as the numbers might suggest.

Kobe is difficult to gauge. despite his MVP and 5 titles and memorable performances and scorig acumen, Kobe still played with Shaq, when Shaq was the best player in the NBA. Never was Bird, Magic, or MJ the second best player on their own team.

But it's not like they did it alone either. We all know Larry's supporting all-star casts, but MJ had Pippen and Rodman for 3 titles, Magic had what, 3 other HOFers for 3 of his titles?

But none of them had a player who was as dominant as Shaq. And, in an expanded league. I don't think it's wrong to say Kobe is in Magic and Larry's class, but to say with certainty that he's better, erroneous.

Wow..in that case, Hakeem was truly dominant.

Did he even have a HOFer on his HOU squads that he won back-back rings with? I know he had Kenny Smith, and he was a very good player, but I don't remember him being in the HOF.

Hakeem had Otis Thorpe, too...but besides a few ASGs, he's not in the HOF, either.

Hakeem Olajuwon was just dominant..he is one of the few Bigs that gets respect from Shaq.

There will never be another Hakeem.

  Drexler.

Oh wow...how in the world did I miss THAT?

a big TP to you.
CelticsBlog 2013 Historical Draft Seattle Supersonics: Coach: Jerry Sloan

C- Bill Walton/James "Buddha" Edwards/Danny Schayes/Caldwell Jones
PF-Buck Williams/Caldwell Jones/Danny Schayes
SF-Adrian Dantley/Ricky Pierce/Greg Ballard
SG-Eddie Johnson/Ricky Pierce/Trent Tucker
PG-Maurice "Mo" Cheeks/Lionel Hollins

Offline alajet

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 790
  • Tommy Points: 54
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2012, 06:59:34 PM »
I'm biased, which everyone knows... BUT if Shaq isn't ahead of Kobe then I don't know what everyone was/are watching! If Shaq isn't top 5/10 then Kobe sure as heck isn't! Are we watching these guys or what??? 0.0

Someone needs to do a serious poll, who would you take in their primes, Shaq or Kobe? If Kobe can't beat Shaq in that regard then he isn't even top 10 much less better than Magic or Bird!

I can't even believe people were serious when saying this! I can't!

I think it's a bit irrelevant. You always take the big man.
It's like asking if Kareem or Wilt would be picked over MJ or not. Of course, they would have been.

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10842
  • Tommy Points: 2120
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2012, 07:09:04 PM »
I think my main reason for the big miss with Drexler was seeing Hakeem work his mojo back then.

All I remember from those Rockets days were those moves, lol.

Only other players that could hold a candle to this man was perhaps McHale, Duncan and arguably KG as far as bigs with various ways to score.

Hakeem went toe to toe with Shaq in his prime.





And I've never seen David Robinson man-handled like THIS:



Hakeem Olajuwon has got to be the most complete Big Man to ever play the game, no disrespect to Russell or Kareem.

He had Zero weaknesses.
CelticsBlog 2013 Historical Draft Seattle Supersonics: Coach: Jerry Sloan

C- Bill Walton/James "Buddha" Edwards/Danny Schayes/Caldwell Jones
PF-Buck Williams/Caldwell Jones/Danny Schayes
SF-Adrian Dantley/Ricky Pierce/Greg Ballard
SG-Eddie Johnson/Ricky Pierce/Trent Tucker
PG-Maurice "Mo" Cheeks/Lionel Hollins

Online RebusRankin

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8271
  • Tommy Points: 799
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2012, 07:45:53 PM »
Bird was top 4 in MVP voting every year of his prime (79-88). Top 2 from 1981-1987. 4th was in his rookie year. Should have won the 81 and 87 MVPs. His competition in those years included Abdul Jabbar, Jordan Johnson, 3 guys usually put in the top 5-6 of all time, Moses Malone and Dr J who are what top 15?

Kobe doesn't compare.

Offline fitzhickey

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1568
  • Tommy Points: 254
  • Dante Exum= future allstar
Re: The media considers Kobe better than Larry and Magic
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2012, 09:36:50 PM »
I think my main reason for the big miss with Drexler was seeing Hakeem work his mojo back then.

All I remember from those Rockets days were those moves, lol.

Only other players that could hold a candle to this man was perhaps McHale, Duncan and arguably KG as far as bigs with various ways to score.

Hakeem went toe to toe with Shaq in his prime.





And I've never seen David Robinson man-handled like THIS:



Hakeem Olajuwon has got to be the most complete Big Man to ever play the game, no disrespect to Russell or Kareem.

He had Zero weaknesses.
TP, this is what i was looking for.
DKC: New Orleans Pelicans
Pick 2: Toronto
PG: Lowry/Jeremy Lin
SG: JJ Reddick/Avery Bradley
SF: DeMar DeRozan/Demarre Carrol
PF: Josh Smith/Ryan Anderson
C: Pau Gasol/Tiago Splitter

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog