Author Topic: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?  (Read 8028 times)

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Offline LooseCannon

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2012, 08:18:56 PM »
We're not talking Al Jefferson for KG here.  Though Varejao is playing like a total beast this season.

If the Celtics had Al Jefferson, I would trade him for Varejao.
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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2012, 09:30:36 PM »
To answer your qeustion, i'd say it would be like Chauncey Billups again if we traded him.


Man it would suck to see Sully perform very well with another team.

Him, rondo and bradley are the future faces of the Celtics
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Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2012, 11:13:55 PM »
To answer your qeustion, i'd say it would be like Chauncey Billups again if we traded him.


Man it would suck to see Sully perform very well with another team.

Him, rondo and bradley are the future faces of the Celtics

 :'(Billups was an incredible screwup. :'( :'( 


Keep Sully , AB , Fab and Joseph and see what s what...


Gotta see what all these kids can bring to the table by the years end.

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2012, 11:47:14 PM »
Where did I say that Sully was the same player as Gerald Green?

There are dozens of reasons why a player's potential might not work out.  There's an argument that, even best case scenario, Sully will never be as good as Varejao or Gortat.  When you add the substantial risk that Sully will never reach that upside, trading him for legit talent doesn't seem all that risky to me.

you may be right that sullinger will never match gortat. it is hard to say. however, i dont think it a lock that he wont at least rival gortat.

right now....

sullinger
18:11 min/game
5.6 pts/game
4.7 reb/game
.06 block/game

gortat
31:18 min/game
11.7 pts/game
8.3 reb/game
2.1 blocks/game

gortat is 28, sully is 20. only time will tell.
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Offline PhoSita

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2012, 03:27:55 AM »
We're not talking Al Jefferson for KG here.  Though Varejao is playing like a total beast this season.

If the Celtics had Al Jefferson, I would trade him for Varejao.

Yep, me too.
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Offline PhoSita

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2012, 03:31:57 AM »
best case scenario he becomes a david west...worst case scenario a baby davis/Brandon bass...which is still a 10ppg/6rpg player

I would argue that for significant stretches this year Sully has already outplayed Brandon Bass.  Which means there's no question he's better than Glen Davis already.

I really like the David West comparison.  I could see Sully becoming that kind of player.  David West was never a superstar, but he's been an All-Star caliber player a number of years now.  Right now he's probably the best player on the Pacers.  He's shown that he's a lot more than a guy who caught passes from Chris Paul for a while.
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Offline mctyson

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2012, 05:08:13 AM »
I think Sullinger has a chance to be a starter for a contending team, with the potential to average a double-double in points and rebounds.  Those guys to do grow on trees.  When you have them at 21 on rookie contracts you keep them, unless someone blows you away with a trade offer.

And no: Gortat or Varejao are not the kind of players that blow me away.

Offline mr. dee

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2012, 06:27:12 AM »
Delusions of grandeur?

The guy is good, no doubt.  He might even some day make an all-star team.  I just don't see him as having anything more than boder-line all-star at best, as his ceiling.

I'm highly skeptical he'll ever reach the level of players like Josh Smith or Zach Randolph.  Guess what, those two guys have zero all-star appearances combined.

He is not a cornerstone type player.  Thus, if an opportunity presents itself to move him in a "win now" type of deal, you jump at it.
I guess you missed the 2010 all-star game. :)

Offline crimson_stallion

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2012, 07:22:40 AM »
There are a few reasons I don't think he's likely to get traded.  Some of the intangibles are:

1. He's only 20 years old, and he's already good enough to start for most teams.

2. He's a hard worker, he's modest and he has a willingness to learn. 

3. He has incredibly high IQ - guys with high IQ tend to have long effective careers because their skills are not dependant on their athletic ablity.


Now the tangibles:

1. He is versatile offensively he can score off offensive rebounds, he can score in the post, he shoots well from midragen, he has three point range and he's currently shooting > 90% from the Free Throw line.  He shoots at a higher percentage from the floor than Bass does in just about ever area.

2. He is probably the best rebounder on our team.  His rebound rate is equal first on the team (with KG), but while KG is an elite defensive rebounder he is a below average offensive rebounder.  Sully rebounds on both ends of the floor.  He's probably our only genuine offensive rebounding threat,  with his OREB rate of 11% being very good.

3. He has excellent hands.  He doesn't bounce the ball of his feet, and he is very good at catching Rondo's uncatchable bullet passes.  He turns the ball over maybe once in every 3 games if that.

4. He's picking up a knack for drawing charges (in the mould of Big Baby) and his individual defense is improving by the day.

Now most important of all, he's on a cheap rookie contact.  What vet is out there on a $2m contract that we can trade Sully for and who is actually WORTH tading him for?

Offline Roy H.

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2012, 08:07:07 AM »
There are a few reasons I don't think he's likely to get traded.  Some of the intangibles are:

1. He's only 20 years old, and he's already good enough to start for most teams

Which 16+ teams would he start on?

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Offline azzenfrost

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2012, 08:30:38 AM »
Bobcats or Wizards?
I moved the cheese.

Offline Edgar

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2012, 08:50:41 AM »
We're not talking Al Jefferson for KG here.  Though Varejao is playing like a total beast this season.

If the Celtics had Al Jefferson, I would trade him for Varejao.

Yep, me too.

I will bite
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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2012, 08:52:37 AM »
To answer your qeustion, i'd say it would be like Chauncey Billups again if we traded him.


Man it would suck to see Sully perform very well with another team.

Him, rondo and bradley are the future faces of the Celtics

 :'(Billups was an incredible screwup. :'( :'( 


Keep Sully , AB , Fab and Joseph and see what s what...


Gotta see what all these kids can bring to the table by the years end.
Billups bounced around the league for years and was on like his 5th team before he even remotely played like an above average starter.  And Kenny Anderson was a pretty solid player for Boston.  He came over in his prime (27), stayed 5 years, and was a key member of some nice Celtics' playoff runs.
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Offline slamtheking

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2012, 08:59:58 AM »
To answer your qeustion, i'd say it would be like Chauncey Billups again if we traded him.


Man it would suck to see Sully perform very well with another team.

Him, rondo and bradley are the future faces of the Celtics

 :'(Billups was an incredible screwup. :'( :'( 


Keep Sully , AB , Fab and Joseph and see what s what...


Gotta see what all these kids can bring to the table by the years end.
Billups bounced around the league for years and was on like his 5th team before he even remotely played like an above average starter.  And Kenny Anderson was a pretty solid player for Boston.  He came over in his prime (27), stayed 5 years, and was a key member of some nice Celtics' playoff runs.
exactly.  Billups wasn't a screwup.  trading a young player that needs 5-6 years to develop for a solid veteran that improves your team immediately isn't a mistake.

Trading JJ, now that was a mistake for several reasons. 
1. He had shown NBA-level skills before he was traded whereas Kedrick Brown had not.
2. C's had another lesser player (Brown) that PHX would have taken instead.
3. Although Rogers and Delk were major players in the playoff run that year, not keeping Rogers for more than a partial-season rental (thus necessitating the Gin Baker trade the following year) compounded the mistake of trading JJ. 

a team with a prime Kenny Anderson and young JJ, PP and Toine would have been a really solid foundation for the next several years.
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Offline scaryjerry

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2012, 09:05:59 AM »
There are a few reasons I don't think he's likely to get traded.  Some of the intangibles are:

1. He's only 20 years old, and he's already good enough to start for most teams

Which 16+ teams would he start on?

Is it really hard to believe when DOC RIVERS wanted to start him going into his rookie season? May not have been entirely ready and needs a little refinement but going forward don't think its a stretch.

 

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