Author Topic: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?  (Read 9571 times)

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 03:51:35 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Sully has a unique skillset, fills a key position on the court (it's all about the PF spot, IMO), is improving incredibly as a rookie and belongs out there already, has a low-allstar/6POY candidate ceiling and could get there very soon, and could complement any C and SF in style and substance due to his versatility and BBIQ.  He can score and rebound.  And he's a rookie on a rookie contract.

That's about it.  Trading him for someone like Gortat would be, according to this upside-only take on him, a lateral move, especially if he's starting over Bass to start next season.

And that's a possiblity, which would have us look like a nice mix of talented youth and experience:

Rondo/Terry
Lee/Bradley
Pierce/Green
Sully/Bass
KG/Wilcox

If Sully comes around over the course of this season like he might be starting to, we're retty darn well set.

The only thing we could do is try to get bigger, and then only if we're not happy with giving any minutes at all to Collins.

In that case (wanting another C), we ship out Bass, Barbosa, Collins, and a pick.  I actually would rather keep Joseph than a 1st rounder, and perhas Melo as well.

I dunno...does that sound nuts?

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 05:28:42 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Good one Roy:-))))  I did overstate it:-))  Forgot about Magic and I am sure a few others.  I do like his b-ball IQ though and will stand by that part of it.

I am spinning and spinning this and it is still not working:-))

Smitty77

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 05:59:18 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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We'll all just have wait till AB , Green , and the whole mess of who is who becomes more clear.

I just thinking....AB , Sully, Fab, Joseph are some nice young pieces , that are being TRAINED CORRECTLY and schooled by the best  Pierce, Doc and KG .

The Celtics mold players in indiviuals other teams enjoy getting.

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 06:03:27 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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I've seen numerous fans say that they wouldn't give up Sullinger for the likes of Gortat or Varejao.

What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?

Clearly, u avoid trading impact rookies- if u can trade veterans with similar roles or skill level.  I don't think most fans see him as untouchable. However, Westphaul for Charlie Scott, or Joe Johnson as a last minute throw in scenarios should be avoided.  Varejaeo would be a coup. But move Bass over Sullinger, is what most people r saying!
"Just do what you do best."  -Red Auerbach-

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 06:06:07 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I've seen numerous fans say that they wouldn't give up Sullinger for the likes of Gortat or Varejao.

What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?

First...please do not compare Sullinger to Gerald Green.  Sully was an All-American and a legit top-10 projection before the health issues arose. 

Second:  we just drafted the guy.  He is getting significant minutes under a coach who NEVER plays rookies.  I like what I see every game.  He is what, 21?  I don't want to trade a guy like that, a guy this franchise needs to as part of its foundation for the next 5 years, for  Marcin Gortat, who may or may not improve this team.

Nobody is untouchable.  But my ranks of untouchability for this roster are:

1) Rondo
2) KG
3) Pierce (only because he is a lifer)
4) Avery
5) Sully

Everyone else is very touchable.

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2012, 06:06:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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But move Bass over Sullinger, is what most people r saying!

I think many fans think that Cleveland would reject a deal centered around Bass out of hand.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2012, 06:17:05 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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I think many fans think that Cleveland would reject a deal centered around Bass out of hand.
In general, or for Bob specifically? I think that Bass has a nice contract (3y for only 6-7m/yr) and is a pretty good player, so that makes him a pretty decent trade piece in a void. Admittedly I don't know how well he would fit on Cleveland's roster.

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2012, 06:36:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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"After Pierce, Garnett, and Terry retire, it's not going to matter much who else is on the team . . . we're going to be in free fall. "

Unless we use their ~32 million (~20 mill to stay under the cap?) to grab a high impact player out of free agency then team him with our all-star RR, rising stud AB and solid role players Lee, Sully, Green.

This has been discussed a lot before, but the Celtics don't have a great track record with attracting top free agents.  Plus, we've seen how much of a crap-shoot that can be (see: Mavericks).
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2012, 06:39:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Where did I say that Sully was the same player as Gerald Green?

There are dozens of reasons why a player's potential might not work out.  There's an argument that, even best case scenario, Sully will never be as good as Varejao or Gortat.  When you add the substantial risk that Sully will never reach that upside, trading him for legit talent doesn't seem all that risky to me.

All true, but I think people kind of have a point when they reference guys like Joe Johnson (or Chauncey Billups!).

We're not talking Al Jefferson for KG here.  Though Varejao is playing like a total beast this season. 
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2012, 07:18:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think many fans think that Cleveland would reject a deal centered around Bass out of hand.
In general, or for Bob specifically? I think that Bass has a nice contract (3y for only 6-7m/yr) and is a pretty good player, so that makes him a pretty decent trade piece in a void. Admittedly I don't know how well he would fit on Cleveland's roster.

For AV.  Presumably, Cleveland will be able to add better talent than Bass in any Varejao trade.

To get someone good, you (usually) have to give up somebody good, or add another tangible benefit.  A trade centered around Bass without giving up either Sullinger or Bradley probably won't happen.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 07:29:30 PM »

Offline cman88

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my problem is, this isnt anything like Al Jefferson for KG...with that trade you are getting an All-star and one of the best PF's of all time


most of the trades people are throwing out here are for guys like Gortat or Verajo...for the talent you are giving up to mak, im not sure how much better it makes you this year

and, it certainly doesnt make you better for the future

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2012, 07:33:18 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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my problem is, this isnt anything like Al Jefferson for KG...with that trade you are getting an All-star and one of the best PF's of all time


most of the trades people are throwing out here are for guys like Gortat or Verajo...for the talent you are giving up to mak, im not sure how much better it makes you this year

and, it certainly doesnt make you better for the future

It's also pretty unlikely that Sullinger is ever as good as Big Al.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2012, 07:51:13 PM »

Offline cman88

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my problem is, this isnt anything like Al Jefferson for KG...with that trade you are getting an All-star and one of the best PF's of all time


most of the trades people are throwing out here are for guys like Gortat or Verajo...for the talent you are giving up to mak, im not sure how much better it makes you this year

and, it certainly doesnt make you better for the future

It's also pretty unlikely that Sullinger is ever as good as Big Al.

maybe not, but I think alot of people are selling Sullinger short...

before news about his 'back" came out he was a projected top 10pick in this draft, and was a top3 projected pick had he come out last year.

you arent projected that high without having upside...best case scenario he becomes a david west...worst case scenario a baby davis/Brandon bass...which is still a 10ppg/6rpg player

i'm just more in favor of trading our future youth in Bradley/Sullinger if it nets us an impact player...not a stopgap for now

especially when those guys are already shown to be rotation worth NBA players

Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2012, 08:10:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Bass is a KNOWn quanity,   What you see is what get.

What makes Sully ...has he even finished growing ??? and AB intriguing is their upside is not known to anybody,  alot of us were totally wrong about Bradley his first year amd would have traded him for a donut..  He is a dynamite player , but knowbody knows where his ceiling is now , and same for Sully , Fab or Joseph...you can guess all you want , but you never know how somebody might turn out.

I would gamble keeping AB and Sully and Fab.  I never felt this way about JJJ or Moore.     


Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2012, 08:14:37 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Sully is touchable but he has shown some flashes of ability and that makes it where one does not want to part with him casually..

 

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