Author Topic: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?  (Read 8021 times)

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Offline PhoSita

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2012, 12:24:37 PM »
The hope (or delusion) that a team built around Rondo, AB, Green and Sully is some sort of title contender when KG and Pierce are gone.

Contenders for the division, maybe.  (And maybe is optimistic.)

I don't know that it's so much that people actually think a team built around those players would win much of anything, but rather that people like to feel that the team has some kind of a young core in place for when the old guys retire / suffer a sudden decline. 

Especially when your team isn't necessarily playing at an elite level (and the Celtics are not right now, though signs are pointing up), it's nice to be able to watch younger players develop and hope they might turn into something really nice.

I don't know that Sully is really ever going to a "great" player, but so far I'd say it's not overly optimistic to think he has a good chance of becoming at least an above average starter at his position.  Those who say that his upside is so limited by his lack of athleticism should take a look at some guys around the league who have been very productive recently despite a lack of athleticism (Randolph, Love, Scola, Lee etc).

All of that said, though I would hate to see Sully go, getting a player like Varejao or Gortat could actually give this team a much better shot at doing something significant in the playoffs, and maximizing competitiveness in the next few years should be the primary goal.  After Pierce, Garnett, and Terry retire, it's not going to matter much who else is on the team . . . we're going to be in free fall. 
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

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Offline Bombastic Jones

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2012, 12:46:17 PM »
"After Pierce, Garnett, and Terry retire, it's not going to matter much who else is on the team . . . we're going to be in free fall. "

Unless we use their ~32 million (~20 mill to stay under the cap?) to grab a high impact player out of free agency then team him with our all-star RR, rising stud AB and solid role players Lee, Sully, Green.

Offline ScottHow

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2012, 12:47:12 PM »
I don't think he is untradable, but I would like the Celtics to hold on to him unless it nets a big win now player.

I'm really interested to see how good Sully can be once/if he loses 15 lbs. If he can shed that baby fat I think he can be a really good allstar type player.

-It'd help him with his defensive quickness(even though he is already becoming an underrated defender as he's already getting into the right spots to take charges)

-Let's not forget he has a pretty good post game that we have yet to see and he's showing a jumper that is surprisingly good.

-He's already looking like one of our better rebounders and losing the weight can only help.

I can see him at his best being a 18 and 12 guy.

I would also like to note that I have green tinted glasses on for Sully already and I realize that all statements above probably point to me being a homer, lol.

Offline Smitty77

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2012, 12:55:15 PM »
Roy,

I am a little surprised to read you comparing Gerald Green with Sully.  They could not be different in terms of basketball IQ.  Sully has perhaps the highest basketball IQ of any 20 year old to ever play in the NBA.

Smitty77

Offline Boris Badenov

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2012, 01:03:03 PM »
We obviously should trade him, if we hope to contend this year. We all know Doc never plays rookies!

Offline European NBA fan

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 01:05:03 PM »
I agree with SHAQATTACK that having a rookie player who actually contributes to the team feels like striking gold after a couple of "lost" years. It doesn't have to be the mother load, even if it's only a small vein, this is our gold. And who knows?

Furthermore, almost all players that are considered available to us through trade are flawed or haven't proven themselves as impact players for a contender. Gortat and Varejao weren't starting players, while they were on contending teams, and Varejao has a story of injuries for the last couple of seasons that shines like a big red warning light.

Offline Interceptor

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 01:05:17 PM »
What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?
I don't think that a Gerald Green analogy is apt. Sully is partly potential, but Sully actually knows how to play ball. He's earning time, playing like 18 MPG as a rookie on a Doc Rivers championship contending team, which ought to merit some sort of trophy.

We know he can score, he can rebound, he has range, he is a good passer, he doesn't turn the ball over, he's smart, he's picking up the D, he's taking charges like a boss. These aren't things he might do, these are things he DOES do, we've seen it in actual NBA games. That's not to say he doesn't have obvious downsides, since he does, but there you go, not really a GG in my opinion.

To your original question, I think people are just overly attached to him for non-business reasons. He's as tradeable as any other asset on the roster. This poster is not gonna disparage anyone who gets excited about a promising young rookie, though.

I'd personally be OK seeing Sully go if we got value back. Sideshow Bob would be awesome, so would Gortat.

Offline BballTim

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 01:08:47 PM »
I've seen numerous fans say that they wouldn't give up Sullinger for the likes of Gortat or Varejao.

What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?

  I don't think that Sully will be a star but he seems like he'll be a fairly solid rotation player. Comparing him to Green (when Green was on the Celts) is just plain cold.

  But I'd trade him for Gortat or AV.

Offline BballTim

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2012, 01:10:14 PM »
Roy,

I am a little surprised to read you comparing Gerald Green with Sully.  They could not be different in terms of basketball IQ.  Sully has perhaps the highest basketball IQ of any 20 year old to ever play in the NBA.

Smitty77

  Wow.

Offline Smitty77

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2012, 01:13:27 PM »
Wow?

Offline celts55

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2012, 01:14:01 PM »
I've seen numerous fans say that they wouldn't give up Sullinger for the likes of Gortat or Varejao.

What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?

I don't know that he's untouchable but I wouldn't include him for either of these two. Gortat is much more over valued than Sully in my opinion. He's a desent big that's probably a backup on a team with a good center. Varejao is having an excellent season, but he's been around a while and until I see these numbers continue I have my doubts, not to mention his injury history.
Sullinger looks to be impoving with playing time. He rebounds pretty well and shows a desent shot. I think once he stops getting so many rookie fouls he could be a good defender. He draws a fair amount of charges and shows a pretty good basketball IQ.
So while not untouchable, I certainly wouldn't trade him for another decent player. I would be looking for a team changer, which I don't believe either of these guys are.

Offline Smitty77

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2012, 01:14:28 PM »
And I am not saying that I would not put him on the table to help us win now!!

I do strongly believe he has a high b-ball IQ, being a coach's son and all.

Smitty77

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2012, 01:22:32 PM »
I'd trade Sully but would offer Bass first.

My thoughts too. Love the kid, love his game, and I think he is going to be a Boozerlike player in the league; but if AV or Gortat are available to nab and the deal includes Sully then I ship him off.
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Offline BballTim

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2012, 01:46:57 PM »
Wow?

  I kept my response brief because I was fairly certain you were kidding. Magic was in the league when he was 20, I don't think anyone would say Sully has a BBIQ that's anywhere close to Magic's.



Online BleedGreen1989

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Re: Why do so many see Sully as "untouchable" in trades?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 01:49:00 PM »
I've seen numerous fans say that they wouldn't give up Sullinger for the likes of Gortat or Varejao.

What am I missing?  Sullinger has some potential, but so did Gerald Green.  What do people see in Sullinger that suggests that he holds more value than an above-average starting center?

I don't know that he's untouchable but I wouldn't include him for either of these two. Gortat is much more over valued than Sully in my opinion. He's a desent big that's probably a backup on a team with a good center. Varejao is having an excellent season, but he's been around a while and until I see these numbers continue I have my doubts, not to mention his injury history.
Sullinger looks to be impoving with playing time. He rebounds pretty well and shows a desent shot. I think once he stops getting so many rookie fouls he could be a good defender. He draws a fair amount of charges and shows a pretty good basketball IQ.
So while not untouchable, I certainly wouldn't trade him for another decent player. I would be looking for a team changer, which I don't believe either of these guys are.

Couldn't of said it better myself
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