Author Topic: Trading Paul Pierce....  (Read 2429 times)

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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2012, 12:01:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it!

In terms of points allowed per possession, Pierce ranks 40th in the NBA.  Green is 116th.  Pierce ranks 2nd (tied) on the team in Defensive Rating; Green is 10th.

If there's an argument to be made that Green is a better defender than Pierce, I'd like to hear it.


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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2012, 12:04:19 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Paul is old and getting older (in his game) by the day. JG is young and with the right amount of attitude and work ethic can very much be on the rise in this league. To compare their stats at this point is useless because Paul has way more opportunity. The majority of the plays called are for him still. Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it! I say get the young guy out there with the 1st unit and allow him to gain confidence. Allow his game to mature and I think you'd see the benefits it would reap sooner rather than later.


Can you please show us some of the evidence that Green is raising his game?


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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2012, 12:24:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I took his comment as suggesting that Ainge had a different mindset when put in the same position. Which I don't think is true at all judging by how he offered Pierce to NJ and Allen for Mayo and Bledsoe is separate trades.

BballTim, you can't compare the physical condition of Bird and McHale in 1988 to Pierce and Allen in 2010, so I don't think Ainge keeping the team intact following our Finals loss is similar to Red's choice. I think a more appropriate comparison is exploring Pierce and Allen trades last season, and Ainge didn't blink.

  McHale probably averaged 21/8 over the next 3 seasons, and Bird, when healthy, was a top 3 player in the league. I don't think PP and Ray are at anywhere near that level.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2012, 12:42:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Yeah.  Pierce is and probably always will be a better player than Jeff Green.

Doesn't mean Jeff is necessarily a bad player -- or at least that he always will be one. 

But I think often people get too caught up in how good Jeff Green "looks" at times.  He makes a nice drive or gets a dunk, and he looks the part, and suddenly people start thinking he should turn into Rudy Gay.

The sooner we start having reasonable expectations for Green (especially that aren't tied to his contract), the sooner everybody involved will be better off.
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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2012, 12:43:29 PM »

Online manl_lui

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Pierce should retire a Celtic...

but if Danny feels trading him is the best option, then so be it...it will hurt, but if that trade in the long run gives us championships than I won't complain...but that is a big IF


Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2012, 01:36:16 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Yeah.  Pierce is and probably always will be a better player than Jeff Green.

Doesn't mean Jeff is necessarily a bad player -- or at least that he always will be one. 

But I think often people get too caught up in how good Jeff Green "looks" at times.  He makes a nice drive or gets a dunk, and he looks the part, and suddenly people start thinking he should turn into Rudy Gay.

The sooner we start having reasonable expectations for Green (especially that aren't tied to his contract), the sooner everybody involved will be better off.


It happens when someone suggest pushing Pierce over so Green can play instead. 


(OK, some posters just don't like Green at the moment as well because of how he is playing)




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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2012, 03:03:55 PM »

Offline fitzhickey

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Only if we get Durant in return

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 06:58:31 PM »

Offline mrpoundforpound

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2012, 07:00:27 PM »

Offline mrpoundforpound

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.
NO way he can. Jeff green has much more athleticism and has great heart and Bball IQ since hes a nice guy and seems intelligent. Pierce is a high IQ player as well but on the decline.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 07:11:49 PM »

Offline alajet

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Jeff has unlimited upside

Um, no?


Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

Blake Griffin dunks the ball great, and he's still not even a quarter of 36-year-old TD.


Jeff green has much more athleticism and has great heart

He is doing everything he is capable of to prove you that he has no heart whatsoever.

Green is young, athletic and.. that's pretty much it.
In no way he is a building block for a contending team.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2012, 07:33:34 PM »

Offline jowwwman

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2012, 07:52:42 PM »

Offline blastoidesroidsnoids

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2012, 08:02:58 PM »

Offline mrpoundforpound

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke

You and me are the only ones with the foresight that see the potential of green being a steal for the celtics. dont worry the rest of the board will awaken once they see green make the all star team next year!

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2012, 08:06:44 PM »

Offline mainevent

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Jeff has unlimited upside and pierce is on the downside of his career. Theres no way he can dunk the ball like Jeff did on Al Jefferson anymore.

At this point I'd rather see Gerald Green on this team than Jeff Green. The drop off isn't significant and just seeing Jeff Green on the floor annoys me. I think Gerald Green is the better dunker of the two as well.
What a joke

You and me are the only ones with the foresight that see the potential of green being a steal for the celtics. dont worry the rest of the board will awaken once they see green make the all star team next year!

Make that the three of us. A lot of people on this board are gonna eat their words about Green.  8)
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