Author Topic: Trading Paul Pierce....  (Read 2408 times)

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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2012, 08:59:49 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Danny was wrong, Red was right.

Not if the goal is to win championships, or at least contend, year-in and year-out.

But I think Danny's point was more about the physical aspects of the players, not the ability.  Danny was not saying trade Hall-of-Famers because they can't shoot or pass anymore, but trade them because the moment will arrive when they can't run or jump anymore.  Which happened.

It will happen to Pierce too.  I hope it happens after his contract is up, and after he retires.  But it could happen this year.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Rondo went into mourning when Perk went can't imagine how he'd react with Pierce gone. Besides don't think we'd get much in return to help us. He is still capable of shoring up this team.



Perk was his best friend...I'm sure he wouldn't take a pierce trade any worse.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2012, 09:03:49 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Danny was wrong, Red was right.

Not if the goal is to win championships, or at least contend, year-in and year-out.

Red oversaw 16 championships, Danny has won one.  I trust Coach Auerbach.

Trading Larry Bird wouldn't have won this team a title.  Neither would trading Paul Pierce.


D. Cousins / I. Mahinmi / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / K. Singler / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / V. Carter / B. Gordon / C.J. Wilcox
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

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Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2012, 09:35:45 AM »

Offline celts55

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Truth be told, I don't have a problem so much with trading him, it's that I don't see why anyone would trade for him? I mean if you're seeing his skills declining, I would imagine so are GM's from other teams. I believe he makes somewhere in the 16 million doller range and has 2 more years on his contract.
So what can you reasonably expect to get in return? Someone elses bad contract? Maybe if someone was missing that one piece and this was the last year of his contract than something could happen.
If anyone has a real idea what you could get for him that makes sense please let me know.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2012, 09:40:15 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Could there be a worse time to trade Pierce?


He is in a slump during the part of the season where the Celtics take it slow.


So basically a time for low value on Pierce. 



Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 10:22:59 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 10:28:43 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The only way you could ever justify trading Pierce is if you were getting a guaranteed title in return.  Obviously that's never going to happen.  So he shouldn't be traded.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 10:45:08 AM »

Online Eddie20

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Danny was wrong, Red was right.

  ...which Danny saw when he was in Red's position.

Really? Because he offered Pierce to NJ for their 1st rd pick and nearly finalized Allen for Mayo.

  Trading PP and RA (both in their mid-30s and your 3rd and 5th or so best players) isn't the same as trading Bird and McHale would have been. The offer for McHale was Perkins and Schrempf, both fairly young players. Compare that to OJ Mayo. Danny breaking up the big 3 in 2010 would have been somewhat similar to Red's choice, but he kept the team intact instead of making any big trades.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I took his comment as suggesting that Ainge had a different mindset when put in the same position. Which I don't think is true at all judging by how he offered Pierce to NJ and Allen for Mayo and Bledsoe is separate trades.

BballTim, you can't compare the physical condition of Bird and McHale in 1988 to Pierce and Allen in 2010, so I don't think Ainge keeping the team intact following our Finals loss is similar to Red's choice. I think a more appropriate comparison is exploring Pierce and Allen trades last season, and Ainge didn't blink.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2012, 10:45:45 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

*Edit* Every one except collins is shooting a better percentage.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2012, 10:48:06 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.


D. Cousins / I. Mahinmi / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / K. Singler / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / V. Carter / B. Gordon / C.J. Wilcox
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2012, 11:15:52 AM »

Online Eddie20

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2012, 11:19:48 AM »

Offline gpap

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

*Edit* Every one except collins is shooting a better percentage.

Agreed. This is another one of those instances where fans are letting sentimentally cloud judgement. I love Pierce for what he's meant to the Celtics.

Having said that, his play has declined BADLY. If the Celts play Miami in the ECF again this  year, I shudder to think of Pierce trying to defend Lebron.

It's important to judge players on how they are currently playing, not how they played 5 years ago.

If that was the case, then Allen Iverson would the most sought after free agent right now.

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2012, 11:25:45 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.


D. Cousins / I. Mahinmi / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / K. Singler / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / V. Carter / B. Gordon / C.J. Wilcox
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2012, 11:48:07 AM »

Offline mainevent

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The only way you could ever justify trading Pierce is if you were getting a guaranteed title in return.  Obviously that's never going to happen.  So he shouldn't be traded.

Why is this? Paul is not the cornerstone of the franchise any longer. I think he's still a vital piece, but vital pieces can be traded. The only person I think is untradeable on this team as it stands is KG. He will NEVER be traded as he will be a cornerstone until he's done barring injuries. Rondo has been dangled in the past and don't put it past Danny to dangle him again in the future. We won't get back a "franchise" player for Paul at this point in his career, but we shouldn't settle for anything less than an all-star caliber player if this was to happen.
"Mosquitoes refuse to bite me....purely out of respect"

Re: Trading Paul Pierce....
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 11:53:48 AM »

Offline mainevent

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Seems like every time i look up pierce is having another 40percent shooting night. With a few turnovers as well. I went to look at the stats to make sure my eyes didn't deceive me and i was right. Almost every one on the team is shooting a better percentage than pierce *41percent on the year*.

Despite a slump to start the year, Pierce is still shooting more efficiently than Jeff Green, the player many want to replace him.

Actually, Green is shooting 43.5%, on only 7.7 FGA per game. Pierce is shooting 41.7% on 14.4 FGA per game. The shot attempts is important because both are scorers who need shot volume to get into a good rhythm. Don't mean to knock Pierce, but I do have defend Green by wondering how well Pierce would be playing if he took an entire season off, played uneven minutes, had less shot attempts, and had fewer plays called for him.

Paul Pierce: .477 eFG%, .555 TS%

Jeff Green: .467 eFG%, .513 TS%

So, again, in a down year, Pierce is more efficient than Green.  That's without getting into the various other areas where Pierce is better.

Would more shot attempts help Green?  His career averages are .483 eFG% and .513 TS%, so I'm not so sure.  (Pierce's career numbers: .498 eFG% and .568 TS%.  He hasn't been below a .499 eFG% since 2004.)

Even when slumping, Paul Pierce is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jeff Green.

Paul is old and getting older (in his game) by the day. JG is young and with the right amount of attitude and work ethic can very much be on the rise in this league. To compare their stats at this point is useless because Paul has way more opportunity. The majority of the plays called are for him still. Most importantly, it's not always about shooting percentages but what's transpiring with his "overall" game. I don't care how much of a fan one is of PP, you have to admit he is more than a step behind on the defensive side of the ball. While he's not the main reason our D is seemingly a weak link this year, he definitely won't help improve it! I say get the young guy out there with the 1st unit and allow him to gain confidence. Allow his game to mature and I think you'd see the benefits it would reap sooner rather than later.
"Mosquitoes refuse to bite me....purely out of respect"

 

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