Author Topic: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau  (Read 3063 times)

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Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 12:05:50 PM »

Offline celts55

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I think we take a step back with such a trade, IMO.

Paul is not quite the Paul we are used to, even with his advanced age, but we'd lose a TON of leadership, deep threat, facilitation from the 3, and clutchness if we do this trade.

Paul Pierce, on offense, is still among the best SFs in the game. And he is not THAT bad defensively...he is a bit slower, but I can live with that considering everything else he brings.

I'd rather that THIS group give Banner 18 at least another run or two.
No don't get me wrong.  Pierce is still our 2nd best player behind Kevin Garnett.  I'm just saying that this roster doesn't make sense right.  We have no quality size next to KG and are paying starting money for a SF to come off the bench.  It's silly.  Trading Pierce for Pau solves the main issues.  It's pretty much a sideways talent trade... you're giving up a top 5 SF for a top 5 big, because you need a big and have a starting SF stuck on the bench.   

I would strongly prefer trading Jeff green for pau, but I don't see that ever happening.  I don't see Pau for Paul happening either, but it's interesting to talk about.

Probably off topic, but do you really believe that right now Pierce is better or should I say more important to this team than Rondo?

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 01:35:12 PM »

Offline gpap

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Not quite sure I am seeing where this rivalry stuff is coming from with the Lakers.

I think it's more of a wives tale than anything else. Maybe back in the 80s it was a rivalry but not now.

Not to mention the Celts only play the Lakers twice a year, not much room there of a rivalry.

Right now, I think Miami and even Brooklyn is a MUCH bigger rival than the Lakers.

And yes, I am aware the Celts played the Lakers in the finals in '08 and '10

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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I'm not even sure if the money works out here, because I don't know the exact rules for NBA trades, but I see this as pretty beneficial for both teams:

Boston sends: Green, Lee, Sullinger (total around $15m)
Los Angeles sends: Gasol ($19m)

Go easy on me if it doesn't work because of some rule I don't know ;)

We get a much-needed solid big man while still keeping our leadership and younger pieces like Bradley, Rondo, Melo, and Bass. The Lakers get much-needed depth. The Lakers would have to release some players to make this work (if that's possible).

Boston:
Rondo/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/Free Agent/Joseph
Garnett/Bass/Wilcox
Gasol/Collins/Melo

Los Angeles:
Nash/Blake/Duhon
Bryant/Lee/Meeks
MWP/Green/Ebanks
Jamison/Sullinger/Clark
Howard/Hill/Sacre


Starters: D.Rose - W.Matthews - N.Batum - T.Gibson - J.Noah
Reserves: J.Nelson - A.Bradley - J.Butler - B.Diaw - M.Raduljica

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 01:39:47 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Cons:  Paul Pierce is better than Pau Gasol.  Paul Pierce should retire a Celtic.  Pau Gasol is a Laker.  Pau Gasol is more expensive. 

Pros:  Nothing's coming to me. 

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 02:00:29 PM »

Online 2short

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I think we take a step back with such a trade, IMO.

Paul is not quite the Paul we are used to, even with his advanced age, but we'd lose a TON of leadership, deep threat, facilitation from the 3, and clutchness if we do this trade.

Paul Pierce, on offense, is still among the best SFs in the game. And he is not THAT bad defensively...he is a bit slower, but I can live with that considering everything else he brings.

I'd rather that THIS group give Banner 18 at least another run or two.
No don't get me wrong.  Pierce is still our 2nd best player behind Kevin Garnett.  I'm just saying that this roster doesn't make sense right.  We have no quality size next to KG and are paying starting money for a SF to come off the bench.  It's silly.  Trading Pierce for Pau solves the main issues.  It's pretty much a sideways talent trade... you're giving up a top 5 SF for a top 5 big, because you need a big and have a starting SF stuck on the bench.   

I would strongly prefer trading Jeff green for pau, but I don't see that ever happening.  I don't see Pau for Paul happening either, but it's interesting to talk about.

Probably off topic, but do you really believe that right now Pierce is better or should I say more important to this team than Rondo?
yeah, i'd vote for a tie for best celtics player rondo & kg

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2012, 02:22:23 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think we take a step back with such a trade, IMO.

Paul is not quite the Paul we are used to, even with his advanced age, but we'd lose a TON of leadership, deep threat, facilitation from the 3, and clutchness if we do this trade.

Paul Pierce, on offense, is still among the best SFs in the game. And he is not THAT bad defensively...he is a bit slower, but I can live with that considering everything else he brings.

I'd rather that THIS group give Banner 18 at least another run or two.
No don't get me wrong.  Pierce is still our 2nd best player behind Kevin Garnett.  I'm just saying that this roster doesn't make sense right.  We have no quality size next to KG and are paying starting money for a SF to come off the bench.  It's silly.  Trading Pierce for Pau solves the main issues.  It's pretty much a sideways talent trade... you're giving up a top 5 SF for a top 5 big, because you need a big and have a starting SF stuck on the bench.   

I would strongly prefer trading Jeff green for pau, but I don't see that ever happening.  I don't see Pau for Paul happening either, but it's interesting to talk about.

Probably off topic, but do you really believe that right now Pierce is better or should I say more important to this team than Rondo?
yeah, i'd vote for a tie for best celtics player rondo & kg

I would agree, as I think would a vast majority of those who regularly watch this team play. 

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2012, 02:42:01 PM »

Offline ItStaysYang

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The whole idea of trading Paul Pierce, particularly for another short window, "win now" piece like Pau gives me a headache.  Really, I just can't wrap my head around it. 

That's dramatic. Pierce probably hangs it up at the end of this season anyway... You act like he's 27 with loads of upside and plenty more years left in green. Nope. Pierce seems "comfortable" these days. He has no urgency. A trade would befit Pau and Paul both, as they would have a renewed sense of urgency and give their new teams a much higher level of play.

The real problem with the trade isn't that we lose the captain. It's that - I don't (and Doc likely doesn't) trust Rondo, KG, Jeff Green, etc with the game winning shot. Yeah, Pierce has bricked a bunch of them lately, but I still feel the most comfortable with the ball leaving HIS hands before the 4q shot clock expires - no matter what.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2012, 02:44:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think we take a step back with such a trade, IMO.

Paul is not quite the Paul we are used to, even with his advanced age, but we'd lose a TON of leadership, deep threat, facilitation from the 3, and clutchness if we do this trade.

Paul Pierce, on offense, is still among the best SFs in the game. And he is not THAT bad defensively...he is a bit slower, but I can live with that considering everything else he brings.

I'd rather that THIS group give Banner 18 at least another run or two.
No don't get me wrong.  Pierce is still our 2nd best player behind Kevin Garnett.  I'm just saying that this roster doesn't make sense right.  We have no quality size next to KG and are paying starting money for a SF to come off the bench.  It's silly.  Trading Pierce for Pau solves the main issues.  It's pretty much a sideways talent trade... you're giving up a top 5 SF for a top 5 big, because you need a big and have a starting SF stuck on the bench.   

I would strongly prefer trading Jeff green for pau, but I don't see that ever happening.  I don't see Pau for Paul happening either, but it's interesting to talk about.

Probably off topic, but do you really believe that right now Pierce is better or should I say more important to this team than Rondo?
Yeah actually I do.  I've detailed my reasons in the past, but that's probably best for another thread.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2012, 03:20:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Why do the Lakers do this?

Apparently Minnesota has offered D. Williams and Pekovic for Pau and Toronto has dangled a package of Bargnani and Calderon.  Either of those trades make a lot more sense for L.A. than Paul Pierce does.  Total pipe dream in this thread.

(1) I thought the Toronto rumour was that Brian Colangelo hasn't made that offer. That he has been unwilling to put Andrea Bargnani on the table. The rumour was just a few journalists saying they think that would be a fair offer rather than actual trade talks.

I would seriously question how much interest Toronto would have in an older player like Pau Gasol at this stage. Their roster is too weak. Too far away. It would have made a lot of sense if they landed Nash in the summer but not now.

Edit: My mistake. There are reports of Toronto having trade talks with LA. The previous reports I had seen hadn't said that. My bad.

(2) I don't think Pekovic has much value to the Lakers due to Dwight Howard. Pekovic would be wasted in a 10-12 minute a night role as Dwight's backup. If they could trade Pekovic onto a third team and pickup a player that better suits their roster, then maybe that holds good value for LA.

Derrick Williams is a big unknown. I imagine there is a lot of disparity between various teams evaluations of him given his struggles to date. If the Lakers are high on Williams, I think he has more value than Pierce because Williams can be a long term piece alongside Dwight. If not, I think the package falls apart quickly.

(3) I think Pierce has very good value to LA because he is still a top five SF and they are a win-now roster. Pierce can function well alongside a ball-dominant PG like Nash as well as an interior presence like Dwight and a wing like Kobe due to his well-rounded game and excellent jump-shooting. The Lakers have major problems at that SF spot with Artest and friends. Bringing in somebody like Pierce would be a massive upgrade for the team.

A Lakers team with Pierce is better than a Lakers team with Pau Gasol because he better complements Nash, Kobe and Dwight Howard.
Yeah I was quoting an article on ESPN from today which said there were real talks.

I'm not sure how much value Pekovic has to L.A. given they have Howard (though Howard gets hurt a lot and isn't signed past this year), but he has a lot of value around the league.  You don't take on less value just because it fits better.  You just move pieces around to shore up other positions of need.  The dollars also don't work straight up with just Williams and Pekovic so the Lakers would have to be getting some other role players in the trade, which would help their depth immensely.

If those two trade are really available to L.A. then Boston has no shot of acquiring Pau.  None at all.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2012, 03:31:33 PM »

Online BballTim

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Why do the Lakers do this?

Apparently Minnesota has offered D. Williams and Pekovic for Pau and Toronto has dangled a package of Bargnani and Calderon.  Either of those trades make a lot more sense for L.A. than Paul Pierce does.  Total pipe dream in this thread.

(1) I thought the Toronto rumour was that Brian Colangelo hasn't made that offer. That he has been unwilling to put Andrea Bargnani on the table. The rumour was just a few journalists saying they think that would be a fair offer rather than actual trade talks.

I would seriously question how much interest Toronto would have in an older player like Pau Gasol at this stage. Their roster is too weak. Too far away. It would have made a lot of sense if they landed Nash in the summer but not now.

Edit: My mistake. There are reports of Toronto having trade talks with LA. The previous reports I had seen hadn't said that. My bad.

(2) I don't think Pekovic has much value to the Lakers due to Dwight Howard. Pekovic would be wasted in a 10-12 minute a night role as Dwight's backup. If they could trade Pekovic onto a third team and pickup a player that better suits their roster, then maybe that holds good value for LA.

Derrick Williams is a big unknown. I imagine there is a lot of disparity between various teams evaluations of him given his struggles to date. If the Lakers are high on Williams, I think he has more value than Pierce because Williams can be a long term piece alongside Dwight. If not, I think the package falls apart quickly.

(3) I think Pierce has very good value to LA because he is still a top five SF and they are a win-now roster. Pierce can function well alongside a ball-dominant PG like Nash as well as an interior presence like Dwight and a wing like Kobe due to his well-rounded game and excellent jump-shooting. The Lakers have major problems at that SF spot with Artest and friends. Bringing in somebody like Pierce would be a massive upgrade for the team.

A Lakers team with Pierce is better than a Lakers team with Pau Gasol because he better complements Nash, Kobe and Dwight Howard.
Yeah I was quoting an article on ESPN from today which said there were real talks.

I'm not sure how much value Pekovic has to L.A. given they have Howard (though Howard gets hurt a lot and isn't signed past this year), but he has a lot of value around the league.  You don't take on less value just because it fits better.  You just move pieces around to shore up other positions of need.  The dollars also don't work straight up with just Williams and Pekovic so the Lakers would have to be getting some other role players in the trade, which would help their depth immensely.

If those two trade are really available to L.A. then Boston has no shot of acquiring Pau.  None at all.

  None of the players being offered are going to be impact players on good teams. I think that Green and Bradley might be more overall talent than either offer.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 08:15:58 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Not quite sure I am seeing where this rivalry stuff is coming from with the Lakers.

I think it's more of a wives tale than anything else. Maybe back in the 80s it was a rivalry but not now.

Speak for yourself, you don't speak for me.  I hate the Lakers because I lived through the 80's.   I still sometimes wish a quake would just kill the Lakers.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2012, 02:43:55 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think we take a step back with such a trade, IMO.

Paul is not quite the Paul we are used to, even with his advanced age, but we'd lose a TON of leadership, deep threat, facilitation from the 3, and clutchness if we do this trade.

Paul Pierce, on offense, is still among the best SFs in the game. And he is not THAT bad defensively...he is a bit slower, but I can live with that considering everything else he brings.

I'd rather that THIS group give Banner 18 at least another run or two.
No don't get me wrong.  Pierce is still our 2nd best player behind Kevin Garnett.  I'm just saying that this roster doesn't make sense right.  We have no quality size next to KG and are paying starting money for a SF to come off the bench.  It's silly.  Trading Pierce for Pau solves the main issues.  It's pretty much a sideways talent trade... you're giving up a top 5 SF for a top 5 big, because you need a big and have a starting SF stuck on the bench.   

I would strongly prefer trading Jeff green for pau, but I don't see that ever happening.  I don't see Pau for Paul happening either, but it's interesting to talk about.

Probably off topic, but do you really believe that right now Pierce is better or should I say more important to this team than Rondo?
Yeah actually I do.  I've detailed my reasons in the past, but that's probably best for another thread.

How can we not be legit contenders if the 8th best player in the league is only the third best player on the team?

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2012, 04:29:57 AM »

Offline fitzhickey

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Kg would retire, pierce would retire a laker, and rondo would sulk
I don't like that scenario.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2012, 05:11:50 AM »

Offline Mr Green

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Quote
Not quite sure I am seeing where this rivalry stuff is coming from with the Lakers.

I think it's more of a wives tale than anything else. Maybe back in the 80s it was a rivalry but not now.

Speak for yourself, you don't speak for me.  I hate the Lakers because I lived through the 80's.   I still sometimes wish a quake would just kill the Lakers.

Kids these days...

I also still hate the Lakers. TP for maintaning the rage, comforting to see I'm not alone after all these years.

Re: Pros and Cons of trading Paul for Pau
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2012, 07:56:26 AM »

Online 2short

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Quote
Not quite sure I am seeing where this rivalry stuff is coming from with the Lakers.

I think it's more of a wives tale than anything else. Maybe back in the 80s it was a rivalry but not now.

Speak for yourself, you don't speak for me.  I hate the Lakers because I lived through the 80's.   I still sometimes wish a quake would just kill the Lakers.

Kids these days...

I also still hate the Lakers. TP for maintaning the rage, comforting to see I'm not alone after all these years.
you know the funny thing is I to lived through the 80's and the laker rivalry
i hated kareem, byron scott and pat riley but most the rest of team i respected, magic was a joy to watch if he wore a gray uniform, rambis was a celtic he just didn't realize it, coop=posey

 

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