Author Topic: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...  (Read 5905 times)

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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2012, 09:53:18 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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The Thunder are now 89-23 since jettisoning Jeff Green. I'm sure none of this success has to do with Perkins.     
Yes, I'm sure it's because of Perkins, who's clearly half the player he was before the injury (to the extent to which one-on-one defense has become his only tangible skill), and nothing to do with the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka.  Not to mention Harden, while he was there ::)

If I could have those three, I'd give Jeff Green back to OKC _and_ let them keep Perkins.

Perkins has helped those guys grow off the floor and has been a leader on the floor does the dirty work and lets them get all the glory which they do deserve because they're great players but every Jordan needs his rodman(I realize hes not Dennis)....they have no one else who can defend Roy hibbert, Tim Duncan, zach randolph and others....Perkins has helped them in ways his stats wont tell you....why cant you except it? They're going nowhere in the west playoffs without him playing well alongside ibaka against the great frointcourts in the west.
Oh, I can accept that he's helped them. You should probably accept you're vastly overrating how much he's helped them. That team lives and dies by Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka, make no mistake.

Also, Jordan won three titles without Rodman, for whatever that comparison's worth (the Thunder haven't really won anything yet).
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2012, 10:00:33 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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The Thunder are now 89-23 since jettisoning Jeff Green. I'm sure none of this success has to do with Perkins.     
Yes, I'm sure it's because of Perkins, who's clearly half the player he was before the injury (to the extent to which one-on-one defense has become his only tangible skill), and nothing to do with the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka.  Not to mention Harden, while he was there ::)

If I could have those three, I'd give Jeff Green back to OKC _and_ let them keep Perkins.

Perkins has helped those guys grow off the floor and has been a leader on the floor does the dirty work and lets them get all the glory which they do deserve because they're great players but every Jordan needs his rodman(I realize hes not Dennis)....they have no one else who can defend Roy hibbert, Tim Duncan, zach randolph and others....Perkins has helped them in ways his stats wont tell you....why cant you except it? They're going nowhere in the west playoffs without him playing well alongside ibaka against the great frointcourts in the west.
Oh, I can accept that he's helped them. You should probably accept you're vastly overrating how much he's helped them. That team lives and dies by Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka, make no mistake.

Also, Jordan won three titles without Rodman, for whatever that comparison's worth (the Thunder haven't really won anything yet).


He had other guys doing the dirty work then (Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams and Purdue)


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2012, 10:47:26 AM »

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He had other guys doing the dirty work then (Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams and Purdue)
Durant had Sefolosha, Mohammed, and Jeff Green to do the dirty work.
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2012, 11:22:32 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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He had other guys doing the dirty work then (Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams and Purdue)
Durant had Sefolosha, Mohammed, and Jeff Green to do the dirty work.


Two of those guys are swingmen and one is not very good. 


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2012, 11:27:16 AM »

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He had other guys doing the dirty work then (Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams and Purdue)
Durant had Sefolosha, Mohammed, and Jeff Green to do the dirty work.


Two of those guys are swingmen and one is not very good.
Dennis Rodman was a perimeter defender, and Williams and Perdue were not very good.
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2012, 12:19:36 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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He had other guys doing the dirty work then (Cartwright, Grant, Scott Williams and Purdue)
Durant had Sefolosha, Mohammed, and Jeff Green to do the dirty work.


Two of those guys are swingmen and one is not very good.
Dennis Rodman was a perimeter defender, and Williams and Perdue were not very good.


Rodman was a anywhere defender.  He was a big time rebounder. 

Perdue was a good backup C/PF.  That's why he played the role on title teams in Chicago and SA. 


Williams was good. 


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2012, 12:24:33 PM »

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Williams was good.
I find it hard to fathom how you can claim this, given that Nazr Mohammed has been, throughout his career, unquestionably a better player than Scott Williams.

Guess there's no point trying to convince you that the role of Perkins in OKC's success is not as large as many think.
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2012, 12:32:14 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Williams was good.
I find it hard to fathom how you can claim this, given that Nazr Mohammed has been, throughout his career, unquestionably a better player than Scott Williams.

Guess there's no point trying to convince you that the role of Perkins in OKC's success is not as large as many think.


Good is overstating it.


He played his roll off the bench for that team. 





Perkins helps his team.  He plays a roll for them they did not have before the trade.  He is giving something that has improved a playoff team to a contender. 


No one is saying the Thunder are winning just because of Perk.  They are saying the trade that brought them Perk has made them a better team. 


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2012, 12:42:30 PM »

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No one is saying the Thunder are winning just because of Perk.  They are saying the trade that brought them Perk has made them a better team.
Actually I thought someone did just that by pointing out that they have 80 wins since the trade. I have no doubt they were made a better team -- they gave up a redundant piece for a player that addresses a need. But I'd say that 90% of the Thunder's is attributed to the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka. That team would have probably been able to get 70 wins with someone like Brendan Haywood, Zaza Pachulia, or Emeka Okafor instead of Perkins.
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2012, 01:04:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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No one is saying the Thunder are winning just because of Perk.  They are saying the trade that brought them Perk has made them a better team.
Actually I thought someone did just that by pointing out that they have 80 wins since the trade. I have no doubt they were made a better team -- they gave up a redundant piece for a player that addresses a need. But I'd say that 90% of the Thunder's is attributed to the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka. That team would have probably been able to get 70 wins with someone like Brendan Haywood, Zaza Pachulia, or Emeka Okafor instead of Perkins.

exactly. !!   Thunder are more sucessful and continue to become better in spite of Perk happening to be their big man , than because of any significant contributions he has made. 

Alot of the OKC sucess is just all the guys maturing and playing better as a team.

Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2012, 01:48:47 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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No one is saying the Thunder are winning just because of Perk.  They are saying the trade that brought them Perk has made them a better team.
Actually I thought someone did just that by pointing out that they have 80 wins since the trade. I have no doubt they were made a better team -- they gave up a redundant piece for a player that addresses a need. But I'd say that 90% of the Thunder's is attributed to the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka. That team would have probably been able to get 70 wins with someone like Brendan Haywood, Zaza Pachulia, or Emeka Okafor instead of Perkins.

exactly. !!   Thunder are more sucessful and continue to become better in spite of Perk happening to be their big man , than because of any significant contributions he has made. 

Alot of the OKC sucess is just all the guys maturing and playing better as a team.


And they all rapidly matured the second the trade happened. 


That sounds like quite the miracle coincidence. 


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2012, 02:06:06 PM »

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And they all rapidly matured the second the trade happened. 

That sounds like quite the miracle coincidence.
Nope. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the team was already very good for a while before Perkins even played a game, as evidenced by their 92-55 record in the season and three quarters prior to his debut.

More specifically, they had 50 wins the prior season, and were on track for 52 wins prior to getting Perkins (and finished with 55). Then they were on track for 58 wins in the lockout season, and are likely to win 60+ this year.

So yeah, maybe adding Perkins got resulted in a couple of extra wins each season. But nothing "miraculously" happened the minute they made the trade. The evidence for gradual improvement, likely due to their best players coming into their own, much stronger.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 02:22:06 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #102 on: December 11, 2012, 02:24:15 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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And they all rapidly matured the second the trade happened. 

That sounds like quite the miracle coincidence.
Nope. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the team was already very good for a while before Perkins even played a game, as evidenced by their 92-55 record in the season and three quarters prior to his debut.

More specifically, they had 50 wins the prior season, and were on track for 52 wins prior to getting Perkins (and finished with 55). Then they were on track for 58 wins in the lockout season, and are likely to win 60+ this year.

So yeah, maybe adding Perkins got resulted in a couple of extra wins each season. But nothing "miraculously" happened the minute they made the trade. The evidence for gradual improvement, likely due to their best players coming into their own, much stronger.


What ignoring? 


I called them a playoff team before the trade?


I said the trade pushed them from playoff team (a strong one at that) to contender. 


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Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #103 on: December 11, 2012, 02:33:32 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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No one is saying the Thunder are winning just because of Perk.  They are saying the trade that brought them Perk has made them a better team.
Actually I thought someone did just that by pointing out that they have 80 wins since the trade. I have no doubt they were made a better team -- they gave up a redundant piece for a player that addresses a need. But I'd say that 90% of the Thunder's is attributed to the emergence of Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka. That team would have probably been able to get 70 wins with someone like Brendan Haywood, Zaza Pachulia, or Emeka Okafor instead of Perkins.

To relate the same scenario to the 08 Celts. I think the Celts have a much harder time winning the 08 championship with one of these three replacing perk in  the playoffs.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Re: Yeah, I wish we still had Perkins...
« Reply #104 on: December 11, 2012, 02:35:43 PM »

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The Celtics also have a much harder time winning the 08 championship with 12-13 Perkins replacing 08 Perkins.
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