Author Topic: Sox sign Victorino  (Read 10966 times)

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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 09:35:31 AM »

Offline Chris

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This just shows you that hitting the reset button impulsively because you hate your current team doesn't mean you actually have a "plan".
LOL...TP. Absolutely.

I would have been happier with signing low money one year deals and waiting a season or two for a superstar free agent than tying up big money on mediocre role players on the plus side of 30.

While I agree with this, I actually think these are very much middle of the road FAs these days, and the fact that they are just on 3 year deals makes them much more flexible, than the bad contracts the Sox had signed in the past. 

The Sox still have plenty of money to throw around, if and when a superstar becomes available, but I think these signings allow them to keep their heads above water until that happens, and/or until their next wave of young guys are ready to step up.

I relly didnt mind the napoli signing.  The Victorino signing worries me a bit though. 

But I agree, I don't think these signings prohibit them from doing anything they would want to do in the future.

Oh, I am not thrilled with the signings either.  But I also don't think either of these are the kind of contracts that kill you. 

You hope they work out, and with Victorino in particular, I think you can at least count on him being an upgrade in the clubhouse, which is something this team needed.  But, they are still small enough that the Sox can eat them if the players really stink.

Mazz actually said yesterday that the sox could be lucky that napoli had a down year last year because if he didnt he would be getting a 5 year 17 mill per year contract

Yeah, Napoli could be a real find.  I am always afraid of guys who his age, who haven't been super consistent, but he really gives them the right handed bat they need, and he rakes at Fenway.  That could potentially be a great signing. 

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 09:37:02 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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5 year at 17 for Napoli? Even supposing a good year last year that seems nuts.

Baseball contracts have gotten crazy since I started following the sport as an adult.

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2012, 09:37:55 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just because the Red Sox were able to move a huge portion of their contracts out this year and make their long term payroll liability much much less, doesn't make these signings any less bad. They might not hurt them but it doesn't mean they were smart signings fiscally.

People around here were lamenting the 5 year $70 million contract that J D Drew got since the moment he signed that contract and now just a couple years later Two $13 million a year contracts for three years are considered not being able to hurt the team?

I disagree whole heartedly. Massively overpaying players is bad business and it doesn't matter if that player is Carl Crawford, John Lackey, J D Drew or Shane Victorino or Mike Napoli. Its bad business and will eventually come back to bite you in the butt.

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2012, 09:42:14 AM »

Offline Chris

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5 year at 17 for Napoli? Even supposing a good year last year that seems nuts.

Baseball contracts have gotten crazy since I started following the sport as an adult.

Well, in the previous season, in just 113 games, Napoli hit .320, with 30 home runs and a 1.046 OPS.  Those are MVP type numbers, and for a guy who could play catcher, that is pretty impressive.

Of course, it looks like that season was an aberation, and he looks like he is closer to a .260, 25 HR, .850 OPS guy.  But, Mazz is right.  Had he come closer to his 2011 season last year, he would have actually been closer to 20 million per year. 

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2012, 09:42:56 AM »

Offline Cman

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Maybe the Celtics can sell the Red Sox the contracts of Green and Lee. Then we'd be all set.
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 09:43:53 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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5 year at 17 for Napoli? Even supposing a good year last year that seems nuts.

Baseball contracts have gotten crazy since I started following the sport as an adult.

Well I mean think if he was a free agent just a year earlier coming off hitting .350 with a .464 obp, 2 hr and 10 rbi in the world series.  He would have made bank.
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 09:45:34 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I know alot of people would disagree with me but I would have rathered they sign hamilton at 3 years 26 million per year than napoli and shane for 3 years 13 mill each
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 09:46:17 AM »

Offline Chris

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Just because the Red Sox were able to move a huge portion of their contracts out this year and make their long term payroll liability much much less, doesn't make these signings any less bad. They might not hurt them but it doesn't mean they were smart signings fiscally.

People around here were lamenting the 5 year $70 million contract that J D Drew got since the moment he signed that contract and now just a couple years later Two $13 million a year contracts for three years are considered not being able to hurt the team?

I disagree whole heartedly. Massively overpaying players is bad business and it doesn't matter if that player is Carl Crawford, John Lackey, J D Drew or Shane Victorino or Mike Napoli. Its bad business and will eventually come back to bite you in the butt.

Well, I don't think this is a JD Drew signing.  First of all, it is smaller money (and even moreso, when you consider inflation), 2 less years, which is VERY significant.  And the players are not JD Drew.  Victorino is basically the anti-Drew.  He doesn't miss many games, and he plays with a ton of heart and is great in the clubhouse.  And Napoli is a guy they are buying low on, after an off year.

I just think that in todays MLB, 3 years/$39 million is the going rate for an above average every day player, which both of these guys are. 

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 09:47:10 AM »

Offline Chris

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I know alot of people would disagree with me but I would have rathered they sign hamilton at 3 years 26 million per year than napoli and shane for 3 years 13 mill each

Oh, I would be completely with you.  But I don't think there is any chance Hamilton would sign for that.  I think he is looking for a 6 or 7 year deal. 

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 09:54:15 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Honestly, I think the formula is simple.  If a guy doesnt hit 20 HR's a season don't pay him over 14 million per year, if a guy is over 30 and is a pitcher don't sign them to more than a 3 year deal

Would have eliminated crawford and lackey and the sox would be ok. 
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 09:55:13 AM »

Offline Chris

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Honestly, I think the formula is simple.  If a guy doesnt hit 20 HR's a season don't pay him over 14 million per year, if a guy is over 30 and is a pitcher don't sign them to more than a 3 year deal

Would have eliminated crawford and lackey and the sox would be ok.

Seem like reasonable rules.   

Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 10:01:39 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Honestly, I think the formula is simple.  If a guy doesnt hit 20 HR's a season don't pay him over 14 million per year, if a guy is over 30 and is a pitcher don't sign them to more than a 3 year deal

Would have eliminated crawford and lackey and the sox would be ok.

Seem like reasonable rules.

I guess the exception might be if they are already your players and you are signing extensions.  I don't mind it for a guy we know can play in this market and is a good clubhouse guy etc. 
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 10:10:18 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Honestly, I think the formula is simple.  If a guy doesnt hit 20 HR's a season don't pay him over 14 million per year, if a guy is over 30 and is a pitcher don't sign them to more than a 3 year deal

Would have eliminated crawford and lackey and the sox would be ok.

Make some sense, but you wouldnt sign a player like Jose Reyes? For some guys the rules are going to be broken.
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 10:16:45 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Honestly, I think the formula is simple.  If a guy doesnt hit 20 HR's a season don't pay him over 14 million per year, if a guy is over 30 and is a pitcher don't sign them to more than a 3 year deal

Would have eliminated crawford and lackey and the sox would be ok.

Make some sense, but you wouldnt sign a player like Jose Reyes? For some guys the rules are going to be broken.

I wouldnt have signed Reyes but more because of durability than power. 
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Re: Sox sign Victorino
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2012, 10:27:47 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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As a Phillies fan, if Victorino has a bounce back year, you will be very happy with him.


He plays good defense and will make clutch hits. 

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