Author Topic: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade  (Read 6785 times)

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[IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« on: December 02, 2012, 11:25:56 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6168876

This trade is a variant on the Al Jefferson trade idea I had earlier (Sacramento is substituted for Orlando). ...I'll post the idea, and then explain the idea in subsequent posts.

(1) LAKERS

Send: Gasol
Receive: Francisco Garcia, Jeff Green, and Courtney Lee.

(2) CELTICS

Send: Jeff Green, Courtney Lee (DRAFT PICK)
Receive: Al Jefferson and DeMare Carroll

(3) UTAH

Send: Al Jefferson, Earl Watson, DeMare Carroll
Receive: Tyreke Evans, Jimmer Fredette, Jason Thompson
Draft pick from: BOSTON

(4) SACRAMENTO
Send: Tyreke Evans, Jimmer Fredette, Jason Thompson, Francisco Garcia
Receive: Pau Gasol, Earl Watson.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 11:31:24 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Why for the Lakers?

Well, if talk radio knows anything, the Lakers need more shooters, and Gasol is redundant with Howard and D'Antoni. Also, Gasol's contract is an albatross that affords little to no salary cap relief ($19M/per). So although he's terrific, the market is not as great as one would suspect, given his ability.

Green would be ideal in the D'Antoni system; a classic tweener who can get his own shot, runs the floor, and plays in rhythm. Lee can (or used to be able to) shoot well from outside. Francisco Garcia has a bad contract, and is basically a three point specialist - but that's useful in a D'Antoni offense built around Howard/Nash pick and rolls, with Kobe on the bail-out.

The Lakers are committed to Nash, and they're committed to D'Antoni. The formula in that offense, based on what we've seen in Phoenix, is lots of shooters, and lots of pick and rolls.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 11:37:19 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Just don't think it 'does it' for the lakers, and it leaves them without a viable starting 4.

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Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 11:38:35 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Why for Utah:

Utah is heavy on big men:

Milsap, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter; all guys that have pretty good ability on the glass. Tyreke Evans gives them a proven scorer whose game (mid range jumpers and lay-ups) fits well with rebounding bigs - since those are shots that don't tend to carom off the rim as wildly as threes. They'd also get a back up big in Jason Thompson, and Jimmer Fredette, beloved in Utah.

Al Jefferson is a role player - albeit a good one. He scores points for you under the basket. So he ought to be on a team where the players play roles. Utah could redefine itself in his absence as a team that goes hard at the offensive glass. Evans would be a good fit in that type of offense to get the offense started.

Williams would take over at the point. Carroll would be a loss. Although Marvin Williams is a much better shooter.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 11:41:29 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Just don't think it 'does it' for the lakers, and it leaves them without a viable starting 4.

That's a reasonable argument - but don't forget that those Suns teams started players like Marion at the 4 - with great success.

That aside - why couldn't Antawn Jamison start? The 4 is his natural position.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 11:47:18 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Why for Sacramento:

Sacramento has a ton of big men, and a shoot first point guard. Trading Thompson and Evans (essentially - Garcia is eating up a lot of minutes, not very productively, and Jimmer isn't playing much) for Gasol and Watson gives the Kings two strong passing players.

Gasol is good enough to make Brooks, or Isaiah Thomas look good in the pick and roll. He's also able enough to pass out of a double team to Cousins, or first round pick Thomas Robinson.

Adding pass first point guard Earl Watson would help the kings get their elite front court more involved. Consider a Cousins, Gasol, Robinson front court (Salmons and Watson in the back court). ...that's a big group that can back down anyone in the league, and keep the ball in motion against the double team. Insert Evans and Thompson, and players hang on to the ball, instead of moving it around.

This is all to say nothing of the intangible benefit of having two veteran pros come in and show the youth movement a thing or two.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 12:01:36 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Just don't think it 'does it' for the lakers, and it leaves them without a viable starting 4.

That's a reasonable argument - but don't forget that those Suns teams started players like Marion at the 4 - with great success.

That aside - why couldn't Antawn Jamison start? The 4 is his natural position.

I just don't think LA would be on board with it as a viable game plan. Shawn Marion in 2005 could surely start for the Lakers, but that guy was one of the best defenders in basketball, and a viable MVP candidate during a lot of those years. Antawn Jamison just isn't even a starting quality 4, let alone on prime Matrix level. Their upside here is Jeff Green, who has shown he's no long term answer at the 4, and doesn't even look like an answer at the 3 some nights.

Maybe if Bass was in there too, but even then, Im pretty skeptical.

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Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 12:07:12 AM »

Offline jaketwice

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Why for Boston:

Boston is a "roles" offense. The players on this team play a role - and they always will, as long as Rondo is running the show. Rondo plays a role: he passes the ball; because he doesn't shoot, those he passes the ball to, ought to look for a shot. You can see this when you watch the games without him. The ball moves around a lot more. But, it's not as efficient. Over time, I think the Cs are better with Rondo facilitating, since the defense can't just clamp down on the "hot hand."

While it's true the Celtics are having a lot of defensive problems, much of that has to do with the WAY in which we score. We do not draw that many fouls (except for Pierce). If we could produce more big man fouls, it would give OUR big men (mostly KG) the ability to help off the inferior backup. If KG can help, then the guards can cheat: go for steals, force the guy to the off hand.

Moreover, Jefferson plays a role: he catches the ball in the post, and goes up with it. That's a good player to have on a team where everyone plays a role. He's a half court player, and we're (unfortunately) a half court team. With ball in hand, he draws a double.

A line up of KG, Jefferson, Pierce, Bradley and Rondo is weak defensively at the least relevant spot, in our conference. Who does Jefferson guard on Miami? Joel Anthony? How about on the Nets? Kristen Humphries? Tyson Chandler isn't throwing down for 25 points. I'm not worried about Taj Gibson; and I'm not worried about Andrew Bynum.

DeMare Carroll is, by most accounts, a solid defender who could spell Pierce off the bench. Taking Green's place, to some extent.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 12:08:00 AM »

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No way Sacramento wants anything to do with Gasol and his $36m.  If people think Gasol is disengaged now, wait until he ends up on a bottom feeder.  He'd likely competely pack it in at that point.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 12:22:13 AM »

Online KGs Knee

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The more I think about it, and judging by the players Utah has been going with late in 4th quarters recently, I'd venture to guess Utah is more interested in keeping Jefferson, and instead, looking to move Milsap.

Jefferson and Favors is a good starting fron-court.  Add Kanter coming off the bench and more of a role-playing PF, instead of Milsap, and I'd think that is direction Utah is looking to go.

Jefferson might very well not even be available.

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 12:28:32 AM »

Offline jaketwice

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Just don't think it 'does it' for the lakers, and it leaves them without a viable starting 4.

That's a reasonable argument - but don't forget that those Suns teams started players like Marion at the 4 - with great success.

That aside - why couldn't Antawn Jamison start? The 4 is his natural position.

I just don't think LA would be on board with it as a viable game plan. Shawn Marion in 2005 could surely start for the Lakers, but that guy was one of the best defenders in basketball, and a viable MVP candidate during a lot of those years. Antawn Jamison just isn't even a starting quality 4, let alone on prime Matrix level. Their upside here is Jeff Green, who has shown he's no long term answer at the 4, and doesn't even look like an answer at the 3 some nights.

Maybe if Bass was in there too, but even then, Im pretty skeptical.

I gave you a TP, because that's a good point. However, I think this is going to be a D'Antoni offense. So the Lakers will do either (A) a Bryant iso play (or pass to a shooter); or (B) a Nash P&R with Howard, or pass to a shooter. A disruptive force like Green is more valuable in that situation than - what? - another guy for the pick and roll? What additional value does Gasol add?

We know a D'Antoni team ain't playing defense!

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 12:45:50 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Well TP back at you and I guess we agree to..not agree. Gasol, for all his underwhelming play is a legitimate 'missing piece' to a lot of contenders in the league, and the Lakers aren't in the business of enabling anyone without getting their fair cut.

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Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 02:02:05 AM »

Offline jdz101

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Well TP back at you and I guess we agree to..not agree. Gasol, for all his underwhelming play is a legitimate 'missing piece' to a lot of contenders in the league, and the Lakers aren't in the business of enabling anyone without getting their fair cut.

There is underwhelming play and then theres not letting your feet leave the floor for any play whatsoever.

He must be hurt. This is the worst I have ever seen Pau Gasol play.


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Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 10:33:18 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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Green could be a 4 in D'Antoni's system, and playing with D Ho could cover for him defensively if Green's getting overpowered down low. 

I like the trade for Boston a lot, assuming Bradley is healthy. Big Al gives the Cs something they don't have - rebounding and low post scoring. 

He doesn't match up well with Bosh when Miami goes small, but Miami has no one to cover him either, and AL can be a high usage pow post player.  KG would be able to help AL's defensive lapses and AL will help KG by boxing out and controlling the defensive glass. 

Re: [IDEA] Masterpiece Jefferson Trade
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 11:56:32 PM »

Offline syfy9

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This is actually a really good and realistic trade idea. TP for you.


I think that between these 4 teams, this would be the order in terms of benefits.

1. Lakers
2. Jazz
3. Celtics
4. Kings

I think that this move would put the Lakers over the top (which is a no no). I dunno. I really like Green in a true run n' gun system. Lee and Garcia make them deeper, and having multiple stretch 4 will be a pain for defenses to cover. When worse comes to worse, the Lakers could always go big and start both Howard and Hill. It might come back to bite us in the future, but as long as Nash is injured, they won't be nearly as effective as the roster sheet paper would like you to believe.

The Celtics improve vastly imo, but not as much as the Lakers. Pierce, Big Al, and KG will arguably make us the best post up team in the NBA. Big Al is also a great closer for Utah late in games, so that adds another clutch dimension to the Celtics. In terms of defense, I doubt he'd do any worse than what Green/Bass/Sully could provide. I feel like Al would move to the 4 as well. I don't agree with you that Al is "just a role player". They run their entire offense through him, and he has the ability to be not only a scorer from the post, but also a play maker. Which is good.


The Jazz fix their front court problem and get a starter-caliber prospect in Evans. Thompson is a great player overall and Jimmer will be adored in Utah. This would be a great marketing move as well as creating a young, talented duo with Evans and Hayward.

The Kings with Pau Gasol would have a great twin towers set up, however, I doubt they'd be good enough to get higher than at most the 7th seed in the playoffs. Not a great move looking into the future for Sacramento, but who knows?

Solid trade for everybody, OP. Go send this to Danny.

I like Marcus Smart

 

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