Author Topic: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball  (Read 3427 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 12:46:25 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3161
  • Tommy Points: 581
It may be that for all the good Rondo does, it turns out it's a detriment when only 80% of your lineup is looking to score aggressively. Rondo's obsession with assists and his aversion to aggressively trying to score is detrimental.

Also, the blazers kind of suck and it might have been a fluke.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 12:54:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22642
  • Tommy Points: 1041
It may be that for all the good Rondo does, it turns out it's a detriment when only 80% of your lineup is looking to score aggressively. Rondo's obsession with assists and his aversion to aggressively trying to score is detrimental.

Also, the blazers kind of suck and it might have been a fluke.

  Rondo's obsession with getting his teammates good shots is hardly a detriment to the team.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 12:55:10 PM »

Offline celtics2

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 847
  • Tommy Points: 42
How did I know that I was going to wake up to a thread saying something about the Celtics being better without Rondo. Think about what you're saying. Any team that has the best point guard in the league is miles better with him then without him.

I will agree that the ball movement last night was much better. I dont think it had anything to do with Rondo, we just finally came to play.

Sometimes we don't believe what we see.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 12:56:58 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4320
  • Tommy Points: 124
I said it before and ill say it again. We don't need rondo to handle the ball 95 percent of the time. We have alot of people on this team that benefit from having the ball in their hands and rondo takes that away from them. Not his fault, its docs.
If he doesn't have the ball 95% of the time, then how is he supposed to get all those assists ;)

Lets see what happens in the next game.  Portland was horrible, but the C's did seem kind of free.  Guys like Courtney Lee actually got to make some plays and not just stand around.  Rondo is a top 2 point guard in the league but you may be on to something.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 01:04:08 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12207
  • Tommy Points: 1177
While I don't agree with the premise that our offense is better without Rondo, there's a case to be made that it should be even better than it has been with Rondo. Since early on I've been calling for Rondo to relax the control of the ball, to move the ball around earlier in the shot clock. As is we're currently misusing some of our best basketball assets. If he's going to control the ball as much as he's been doing, then he needs to produce even more than he's done so far (which has been already great, but that's the deal).

Pierce has been a problem this year too on this regard.

Also, I like Rondo off the ball this year in particular since he's hitting his shots. This is not a call for Rondo to not be very involved in our offense, or not control the ball a substantial amount of the time, but in some regard the amount his dribbling the ball without a pass has become detrimental to the team... someone other than Rondo with the ball would have completely killed our offense if this were happening.

Or he needs to push the ball even more.

But there's a rhythm to our offense that's been missing. Players need to touch the ball, it improves their playing time on the floor regardless if they're shooting or not, and when it's their time to shoot, they're usually more comfortable taking it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 01:10:26 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2012, 01:21:39 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9472
  • Tommy Points: 509
Not willing to go as far, but two things were evident for me that game:

1. The team didn't have anyone who could handle the ball at the top without coughing it up with regularity.

2. Having Rondo dominate the ball for the whole game clearly doesn't maximize the contribution of some of our players -- mainly Green and Lee.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 01:38:58 PM »

Offline cman88

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2758
  • Tommy Points: 196
we are NOT a better team without rondo...HOWEVER we are a better team with MORE ball movement.

having rondo stand at the key waiting for terry/pierce to run off screens for 15seconds whiel Green/Lee stand in corners is NOT good offense.

if the shot isnt right there within the first 5seconds rondo needs to pass the ball. when this team moves the ball, the offense flows MUCH better

also, it was mentioned by tommy or mike that they were running more pick and rolls for SEVERAL players and in past games they were only running it for rondo.

Terry is a good player in the pick and roll as evidenced by his success in dallas with Dirk.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2012, 01:41:14 PM »

Offline ScottHow

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • Tommy Points: 354
  • It's what I do! It's who I am!
    • Sports Paintings
I don't think the problem is Rondo controlling the ball as much as others not being aggresive for whatever reason. There have been plenty of times when the ball has come to either Lee or Green and they play hot potato instead of attacking.

Lee and Green need to bring that kind of mentality to the game with Rondo playing, as I don't think Rondo stops them from doing that.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »

Offline BostonNative

  • Avery Bradley
  • Posts: 286
  • Tommy Points: 14
sorry but when rondo is in the O don't move and the ball barely advances. All you see is a bunch of passing and resetting with failed pick and rolls then a mid range jumper.

if you really watch a game with rondo...you will see exactly what i said.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
I said it before and ill say it again. We don't need rondo to handle the ball 95 percent of the time. We have alot of people on this team that benefit from having the ball in their hands and rondo takes that away from them. Not his fault, its docs.

Exactly. People can cover for Rondo all they want
Let me make it clear, not saying Rondo isn't good for the Celtics. He just HOLDS THE BALL FOR TOO LONG
How many times do I see at the top of the key him dribbling the ball for 15 seconds off the shot clock trying to set a play. He just needs to make quick sharp decisions wit the ball

A Sherrod Blakely said it best, when he said the defensive intensity was so much better against Portland. Courtney Lee, Terry, and Barbosa are way better on ball defenders than Rondo

And for Green and all the backlash he's getting. Maybe Rondo doesn't involve Green in alot of plays. He doesn't put Green in easier spots to succeed, (something a point guard has to do)

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 01:48:59 PM »

Offline Brendan

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2988
  • Tommy Points: 72
    • Self Assay
Here is theory that might support the thread title:

--

Rondo cannot shoot and is afraid to take it to the paint like he used to. This means he's holding the ball to remain a threat, choking ball movement. (i.e. if he gives up the ball, the other team can play 5 on 4 and ignore him.) This means there is less overall movement and the offense is more predictable and thus defendable with Rondo.

--

While I can see a some truth in this theory, I still think Rondo brings a lot more to the table. I aslo think the shorter rotation and crappy opponent contributed to what we saw.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10537
  • Tommy Points: 230
Here's my theory: Portland is a bad team, and Boston was fired up to play well after the loss to Brooklyn. in short, with or without Rondo, we likely win last night's game.


Celtics fan for life.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 02:12:06 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8047
  • Tommy Points: 471
I call BS.  Rondo is our best player a lot of nights.

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2012, 02:14:27 PM »

Offline ScottHow

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • Tommy Points: 354
  • It's what I do! It's who I am!
    • Sports Paintings
Here's my theory: Portland is a bad team, and Boston was fired up to play well after the loss to Brooklyn. in short, with or without Rondo, we likely win last night's game.

This

Re: No Rondo=Simpler=Better Basketball
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2012, 02:16:12 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
It may be that for all the good Rondo does, it turns out it's a detriment when only 80% of your lineup is looking to score aggressively. Rondo's obsession with assists and his aversion to aggressively trying to score is detrimental.

Also, the blazers kind of suck and it might have been a fluke.

  Rondo's obsession with getting his teammates good shots is hardly a detriment to the team.

Obviously that's true of any player, unless there are times when he can get himself better shots.

But I'd agree that the main conclusion to be drawn is that the Blazers suck.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog