Author Topic: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn  (Read 2942 times)

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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2012, 09:24:26 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Long post forthcoming.

KG is the best player on this team.  Not much you can say about him.  He's been great on both ends of the court and our only solid rebounder.

Pierce hasn't shot especially well from inside the arc.  Aside from that, he's been somewhat inconsistent on offense, but that's to be expected as he gets older.  He still has stretches where he reminds you why he's going to the Hall of Fame, but they aren't as frequent or extended as they once were.

Terry is a great team player and does everything you want him to do, even though he's mismatched physically against some guards.  That's just a flaw we'll have to live with, but he balances it somewhat with his effort.

I'd throw Lee in there too - he's playing good ball, but his shot just isn't falling.  That's okay.  We don't need him to score much, and I also believe that shot will start falling as the year goes on.  I like the shots he's been taking; he just hasn't gotten the results.

Bass is similar.  I'd like him to attack the glass more consistently, but aside from that he's doing the right things and just not getting the results.  Those midrange jumpers are wide open and will start to fall.

Rondo has been solid on offense and awful on defense.  That gambling crap has to stop, because we no longer have the big men to cover for him.  On offense, I have to wonder if we'll see better ball movement now that his streak has snapped.  They'll never admit it, but I thought they let him dominate the ball even more than they usually do during the streak.  He's a phenomenal passer, but other guys on this team are capable of creating offense too.

Wilcox is a solid rotation big on offense.  I think he actually has more of an offensive game than he shows, too.  Wouldn't mind seeing them toss the ball to him in the post from time to time.  Poor, mistake-prone defender, though.

Sullinger will help us.  Intelligent player who has been the victim of many rookie calls.  He scores without having any plays called for him, and his impact on the glass has been noticed - he's the only player on the team who is willing and able to attack the offensive glass.

Jeff Green seems like he's not fully healthy yet.  Maybe I'm just being naive by saying that.  He's had a game here and there where he looks like he's worth his contract, but I just don't think he's back in basketball shape.  Regardless, he needs to be way more aggressive on offense and on the glass.  He flashes the ability.  He just needs to use it consistently.  On a positive note, I've liked his defense more than I did in the past. 

Barbosa was a good signing.  One of our best players at getting to the rim.  He's liable to score 20 one night and 3 the next, though.  Aggressive, but inconsistent and not very good on defense.

Collins is just a very average player who shouldn't see the court unless it's an emergency. 

Overall, the offense has been good enough but the defense has let this team down.  They give up way too many easy baskets, and then when they do force a miss they give up way too many offensive rebounds.  If they aren't going to attack the glass on offense, then they need to clean up the boards on defense.  They aren't doing that. 

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2012, 09:49:04 PM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2012, 10:03:11 PM »

Offline mrpoundforpound

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Garnett is being a hypocrite. He needs to be quiet. It is all docs fault for not utilizing green correctly. garnetts time is over Jeff Green is the future of this team.

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2012, 10:03:57 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Garnett is being a hypocrite. He needs to be quiet. It is all docs fault for not utilizing green correctly. garnetts time is over Jeff Green is the future of this team.

not sure if serious

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2012, 10:04:40 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2012, 10:19:14 PM »

Offline IndeedProceed

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I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.

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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2012, 02:09:51 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.

Played well tonight.

Did you watch the OKC game? I loved him there.

Not clicking will work out. He clicked in the others.

Jeff Green's lack of energy when he struggles is a problem though.

He needs more end-of-Bucks-win effort when he can't score. Even when he does score he needs that.

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2012, 02:28:56 AM »

Offline cman88

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when Green is agressive with his shot, he can score...that is a given...The question with him seems to be consistency.

tonight was nice. but I want to see him nab another double digit game tomorrow night to show this is something he will/can do every night..rather than follow it up with a stinker

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2012, 02:40:14 AM »

Offline Edgar

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just throwing anonsense here
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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2012, 09:58:20 AM »

Online mgent

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I'd say it's mostly directed towards Green. Bass has played hard, if not very well, same with Lee. Terry's hit some big shots and has been playing pretty well. Other than a couple of games Green has just looked disinterested and lost out there.

This one I agree with, and Id add Barbosa.

I hope you meant that Barbosa's in the group that's been playing hard. Because he has. And I love him.

I'm basing this on the Bk game (I missed tonight's) but yea, he played hard. But kind of frantic, not really with the team. Trying to do too much himself, and isn't really playing with a unit. The whole 'being a star' thing caught my eye in particular. His defense and offense both looked frantic, active, but undisciplined.
Um, isn't that what we want him to do?  Haven't we been begging for a player that can do that for 4+ seasons now?  Obviously not the frantic part, but we've needed a guy that can do it by himself without needing to be set up.  And not like Terry and Pierce taking a couple dribbles and getting off a shot, we're talking about a guy that attacks the rim often and actually gets there.

I seriously don't see how his solitary nature is a negative on this particular team.  Nobody creates for themselves and every other team knows that.  The fact that he's made a career doing this willingly off the bench is bonus because our bench has always been 5 guys playing hot potato with no Rondo to make things happen.

I think he should put his head down as often as he likes because it's an efficient opportunity.  I would not risk that by making him over-think the situation.  Rondo makes getting to the rim and finding the open guy at their crazy speed look so easy, but Barbosa knows it's much easier for him to put the ball through the net.

If his do-it-himself mentality means Green and Lee are not super-engaged in the offense that's an acceptable trade-off seeing as they wouldn't be regardless.  And it's not like either of them are decent shooters to pass out to anyway.
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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2012, 10:29:53 AM »

Offline More Banners

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We have a lot (too many?) good to very good players, but for the team to come together and win, a lot of these journeyman-level guys need to play out of their minds for every minute they're on the court.  Seriously.

What are our expectations of Courney Lee?  People seem to expect him to be Bradley on defense-all NBA selection, and a slasher and 3-ball maker on offense that probably averages double figures in points. 

And for Jeff Green?  We're probably expecting an average of 15ppg off the bench, with solid defense and rebounding, even as he continues to get minutes out of position just to round him into the 20ish minute mark, even though we all tend to agree that he's not successful as a PF.

What about Bass?  Starting-quality PF who complements KG perfectly is what we're looking for, despite him being undersized and not the best rebounder, we expect him to excel at interior defense, protecting the rim, and owning the boards.

Then add JET to the mix, plus Barbosa and Wilcox...let's add up the points we expect the guys to average:

Pierce:  20
KG:  18
Bass:  12
Rondo:  12
Lee:  12
Subtotal:  74 for the starters.

Green:  15
Terry:  15
Wilcox: 10
Barbosa:10
Sully: 5
Subtotal:  55 for the starters.

So...if we don't score around 130 points, someone probably had a bad game and will get trashed on the boards (unless it's KG, who is beyond reproach).

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2012, 10:39:07 AM »

Offline drza44

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Honestly, KG has been a disappointment too. I hate to say this, because he is my favorite all-time player, but he has been really off. His defense is virtually non-existent (okay, that's an exaggeration, he still plays pretty good defense compared to the league average, but it isn't nearly as good as you should expect from him). He has been good on offense, but his passing and rebounding are both down.

Firstly anyone who mentiones KG in this thread with a negative note - shame on you. He has been the hardest working and hardest playing guy on this team. 

He isn't plaing defense? Have you SEEN what happens to our defense when he sits?  He may be more important to his team defensively than any other player in the league.

Just to put some numbers to the claims about KG's performance on defense this year.  This was from the headline blurb posted on RealGM about 10 days ago:

"The Boston Celtics are significantly better on defense with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

The Celtics allow 94.6 points per 100 possessions when Garnett plays and 114.2 when he is on the bench.

The 19.6 point gap runs the spectrum from a defense amongst the NBA's best to worst."


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224584/Garnett_Improves_Celtics_Defense_By_196_Points

And if anything, KG has played even better in the 10 days since.  Even the team's overall defensive rating is moving up, as they're up to about league average after starting off the year among the league's worst.

The issue around KG is that they've been trying to conserve him and playing him fewer minutes...but everything goes to garbage as soon as he leaves the court.

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2012, 11:08:38 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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when Green is agressive with his shot, he can score...that is a given...The question with him seems to be consistency.

tonight was nice. but I want to see him nab another double digit game tomorrow night to show this is something he will/can do every night..rather than follow it up with a stinker
To be aggressive with his shot, you have to give him the ball and let him go to work. I think it's instructive (and not an accident) that guys like Lee and Green performed much better when Rondo was off the floor.
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Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2012, 11:36:15 AM »

Online mgent

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We have a lot (too many?) good to very good players, but for the team to come together and win, a lot of these journeyman-level guys need to play out of their minds for every minute they're on the court.  Seriously.

What are our expectations of Courney Lee?  People seem to expect him to be Bradley on defense-all NBA selection, and a slasher and 3-ball maker on offense that probably averages double figures in points. 

And for Jeff Green?  We're probably expecting an average of 15ppg off the bench, with solid defense and rebounding, even as he continues to get minutes out of position just to round him into the 20ish minute mark, even though we all tend to agree that he's not successful as a PF.

What about Bass?  Starting-quality PF who complements KG perfectly is what we're looking for, despite him being undersized and not the best rebounder, we expect him to excel at interior defense, protecting the rim, and owning the boards.

Then add JET to the mix, plus Barbosa and Wilcox...let's add up the points we expect the guys to average:

Pierce:  20
KG:  18
Bass:  12
Rondo:  12
Lee:  12
Subtotal:  74 for the starters.

Green:  15
Terry:  15
Wilcox: 10
Barbosa:10
Sully: 5
Subtotal:  55 for the starters.

So...if we don't score around 130 points, someone probably had a bad game and will get trashed on the boards (unless it's KG, who is beyond reproach).
??  I don't know anybody that thinks that.

Pierce 18, KG 15, Rondo 12, Lee 6, Bass 10

Terry 12, Green 10, Barbosa 8, Wilcox 6, Sully 4 or 5

And that's with injuries and missed games where guys can boost their stats.  I highly doubt anybody on this board expects 9 different players to score double digits in every game.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Doc and KG were calling out certain guys after Brooklyn
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2012, 11:36:51 AM »

Offline get_banners

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I think the comments (if they were said) were more to kick some of these guys in the rear to do what they're capable of - guys like Lee and Green. Green needs to be more aggressive, even when he's not scoring (though part of the problem is we just run him to the 3 point line when Pierce is in the game - we really should run the offense thru him instead, as he can create in the post or pass the ball well to the open man). Lee needs to play with more energy - the jumper will come, but he needs to not let his off-shooting thus far impact the rest of his game...he can fill up a stat sheet and be great without scoring a ton, like last night. I don't think there was anything negative about the comment, either. I don't think this team has any locker room issues in that sense...they just want some guys to bring more energy all the time.

 

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