Author Topic: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players  (Read 30683 times)

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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2012, 11:26:15 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Wow!

What, coaching strategy is a fine-able offense now? Stupid! Stern is just ridiculous.
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2012, 11:27:11 PM »

Offline Edgar

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I offer this compromise......Pop refunds half the ticket price to all the fans in the arena and 5% of the advertising revenue to advertisers.  If he does that I have no problem with what he did. 

But taking a dump on the fans and sponsors without any regard for them isn't ok.

I see the point about the league fining Doc for sitting centers and whatnot, but the other natural extension is that Pop could sit them all during the finals and it's ok. Being a coach doesn't mean the team belongs to you or that it is subject to all your whims.

My only question here is

what is the players ask him for a rest.....

is that imposible?

and i know thats pretty devils advocate
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2012, 11:28:52 PM »

Offline action781

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We all know if this wasn't a nationally televised game, Stern wouldn't have done anything, actually he probably would have preferred it.  Don't want the Heat losing games now.

The one game I got to see in person in the championship season (@Charlotte in April), the entire Big 3 were healthy DNPs.  Nobody really made a fuss about it.   Didn't hurt that we still won by 20 though  ;D

That's a bummer.  I think when fans purchase tickets they take into consideration when the game is and the risk of players being rested.  I know I don't buy tickets to basketball games in April nor would I ever pay regular season price for a week 17 football game.

What sucks is that the fans had no way to reasonably expect this tonight and a lot of fans likely paid a lot of money for these tickets.
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #78 on: November 29, 2012, 11:42:23 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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You cannot at all justify fining a coaching strategy outside of a coach specifically encouraging dangerous and/or dirty/illegal on court tactics (i.e. cheap shots, etc.). But you cannot fine coaching strategies.

It's completely ridiculous. What's next: fining a coach for encouraging his players to play good defense because fans pay to see scoring?
Stern is looking at the big picture that nobody else is looking at.  What happens when 32 coaches decide to routinely sit their best players because Pop is some sort of genius? How many millions upon millions of dollars do they stand to lose?  Then the owners complain they're losing money. Then the players strike. Then we all complain about how greedy they are. A season gets cancelled.  You can't have coaches getting into a tanking war.  What happens when TNT has 6 games in a row where the best players haven't played?  I don't think it would ever be like baseball where you only see the best guy every fifth game, but players and coaches could start doing the Brett Farve thing where they show up when they feel like it.

It's work. Show up for work. Do your job. You don't have to play the whole game by any means, but being a healthy scratch? I mean geeze. They advertise these guys as the best athletes in the world but ancient Tim Duncan can't play cause he needs an afternoon nap?

There aren't even close to 15 teams that have good enough players/teams to even try this! Spurs are one of the few teams who can rest anyone and still play good basketball! If Mia sat out just LeBroid they would struggle.

Let's say that all 32 teams did try it, SO WHAT, no one even really cares about most of the teams anyway... what's wrong with resting good players EVERY NOW AND THEN, y'all act like he does this every game!

Oh wow, the Bobcats, Wizards, Raptors, Suns, etc., for a game here and there, sit out their 3 top players... yep, their records and play is going to suffer LOL.

We are talking about a game here and there people, calm down.
I agree with you in theory, but it's easy for fans to talk about money losing propositions when it's not our money. If this became common place on the one hand it might not be a big deal. On the other hand 10 grand here. 10 grand there. People don't calm down about shrinking revenue. Sports are already competing with the whole mancave thing and internet and slow economy. They want to make even more money, not less.  It's easy for us to be ok with it because it isn't happening to us. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if Doc tried this. I mean we get on him for not playing centers. I'm trying to imagine what would happen if he just conceded a game to Miami by not even playing guys. No Rondo. No KG. No Pierce.  I wonder how that would go over

The great majority of people go to games to see their teams... yes, good players help bring more people to the games but as evidence by all the terrible teams in the NBA people are going to come to the games no matter what. Sure, some fans come to see the best players but if it was all about the stars then most of the teams in the NBA wouldn't have teams b/c no one would come, because the teams outside of a few teams have a whole team of "scrubs"!

Let's look at Mia, even when they formed the little 3 their fans weren't coming to the games, heck, they had to put white covers on the seats to make it less noticeable, they were practically begging the fans to come to the game. Those fans didn't care about that little 3, they just cared if the team was winning (no matter who was out there)! The fans that were in the stands were the same fans who were there when the team was winning like the Bobcats!


So, that wasn't Doc who rested our best players against Mia last season on tv (wasn't it on like TNT or something)? He was going to sit them regardless of who the cheat played! No, Doc wouldn't do that  ::).

Obviously the Spurs owners don't feel like they are losing money or else they would stop Pop. I think their fans and organization, realize what works for them... like I said before, not all teams would do this b/c, well, their teams stink WITH stars!

This isn't the first time Pop has done this, they still have many fans, great team, and they are still put on nat. TV.

Pop didn't concede that game to Mia, they almost won it. You say that as if Duncan and nem, played they were guaranteed a victory. Pop is the greatest coach in the game, because he plays the scrubs to get them ready if the stars do go down! Doc plays our stars (as old as they are) until they drop, no matter what unless it's RIGHT before the playoffs, instead of doing like POP with his old players, rest them throughout the season. He doesn't play them til they drop... he has more trust in all his players. Doc trusts PP, KG, RR... even if they are hobbled they are going to play if they can go out there (Ray last season playing a bajillion mins per game, even when other players were playing as well or better than Ray was on two bad wheels)!


I almost forgot to add... I am currently crying about the money these poor billionaires are going to lose. Can we give them a moment of silence...
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #79 on: November 29, 2012, 11:55:26 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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Stern has no right to tell individual clubs how to protect their players' long term health by resting them. Too bad the Spurs didn't hang on and win the game.  It would have gone right up Stern's flabby posterior sideways. 

I can't wait for Herr Stern to retire, so the league can start to fix some of their weaknesses.

Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2012, 12:43:26 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Imagine that the Celtics are in a close divisional race or are battling for home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and the Spurs do this in March against a team a game ahead of Boston.

It would be reasonable for Stern to want to discourage having to deal with that.
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #81 on: November 30, 2012, 12:50:10 AM »

Offline action781

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Imagine that the Celtics are in a close divisional race or are battling for home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and the Spurs do this in March against a team a game ahead of Boston.

It would be reasonable for Stern to want to discourage having to deal with that.

The logic makes sense, but what's the difference between doing it in March (which you want to discourage) and doing it in April (which everyone does and seems fine with).

Also, I think if a team wants to try to project and effect standings a month into the because that team's own playoff seeding is going to be far from locked up at that time.  So assuming the case that its in the team's best interest and not an attempt to be malicious towards a team not involved in the contest, how are you going to prevent a coach from coaching its team in its best interests?
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #82 on: November 30, 2012, 01:28:11 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Imagine that the Celtics are in a close divisional race or are battling for home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and the Spurs do this in March against a team a game ahead of Boston.

It would be reasonable for Stern to want to discourage having to deal with that.

The logic makes sense, but what's the difference between doing it in March (which you want to discourage) and doing it in April (which everyone does and seems fine with).

Also, I think if a team wants to try to project and effect standings a month into the because that team's own playoff seeding is going to be far from locked up at that time.  So assuming the case that its in the team's best interest and not an attempt to be malicious towards a team not involved in the contest, how are you going to prevent a coach from coaching its team in its best interests?

Pops' team has routinely been one of the top teams most seasons. He did the same last year and well, they had #1 all around record (I think).
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2012, 01:51:47 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Imagine that the Celtics are in a close divisional race or are battling for home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and the Spurs do this in March against a team a game ahead of Boston.

It would be reasonable for Stern to want to discourage having to deal with that.

The logic makes sense, but what's the difference between doing it in March (which you want to discourage) and doing it in April (which everyone does and seems fine with).

Also, I think if a team wants to try to project and effect standings a month into the because that team's own playoff seeding is going to be far from locked up at that time.  So assuming the case that its in the team's best interest and not an attempt to be malicious towards a team not involved in the contest, how are you going to prevent a coach from coaching its team in its best interests?

The same problem exists with trying to do something about suspected tanking for bad teams in the lottery.
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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #84 on: November 30, 2012, 02:25:22 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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This is crossing the line in my opinion. Having Stern force coaches to play certain people is the next step to making the NBA the WWE.

maybe he should also fine Doc for not playing any of the centers we have on our roster.

This ... ahahahahaha TP

Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #85 on: November 30, 2012, 02:53:51 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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This is not like going to a concert... this is a TEAM sport, meaning there are multiple players on a team, they are there to step in when a player is out (w/e the reason)... when you buy tickets to see a band/singer there are no guys waiting in the wings to step in for them!

You, as fans/businessmen of basketball KNOW going into every game there is a chance that you may not get to see your favorite players AHEAD of time! There are no guarantees (said or unsaid) on who you will see at a basketball game, that's why the team is named San Antonio Spurs and not Duncan, Manu, and Parker. If the fans are upset then that's on them for not knowing what sport they are watching!

If I go to see Usher in concert I am guaranteed to see him on stage, if I go to a Spurs game, I am guaranteed to see the Spurs play, not individual players... if I don't see Usher, I get a refund, if I don't see the SPURS play (if it's their fault), I get a refund. Duncan and Parker are NOT the Spurs, they are just players (who can change at any time) on the Spurs team!
[/quote/]

« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 02:59:48 AM by Ogaju »

Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #86 on: November 30, 2012, 03:04:46 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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This is not like going to a concert... this is a TEAM sport, meaning there are multiple players on a team, they are there to step in when a player is out (w/e the reason)... when you buy tickets to see a band/singer there are no guys waiting in the wings to step in for them!

You, as fans/businessmen of basketball KNOW going into every game there is a chance that you may not get to see your favorite players AHEAD of time! There are no guarantees (said or unsaid) on who you will see at a basketball game, that's why the team is named San Antonio Spurs and not Duncan, Manu, and Parker. If the fans are upset then that's on them for not knowing what sport they are watching!

If I go to see Usher in concert I am guaranteed to see him on stage, if I go to a Spurs game, I am guaranteed to see the Spurs play, not individual players... if I don't see Usher, I get a refund, if I don't see the SPURS play (if it's their fault), I get a refund. Duncan and Parker are NOT the Spurs, they are just players (who can change at any time) on the Spurs team!


I cannot say I totally agree witht his post.. Teams do not exist in a vaccum nor are teams faceless. To say you pay to watch a team and not individuals is a non sequitor because the team is made of individual players. These franchises have faces and they do market individual players. If I go to watch the Clippers I expect to see CP3 griffin and DeAndre, and there better be a good reason if they are scratched from the lineup. If players did not matter then teams would not market them and put them in ad campaigns to lure people to buy season tickets or even individual tickets.

I also disagree that the NBA is about chips. That is only for the fanatics (fans). Believe it or not there are alot of spectators that go to games just for entertainment and dont give a bleep who wins the chip. The real fans could probably not care less if their team rests players because real fans has their eye on the prize,  but think about the coporate executive that invites his business associates from china to a game at in his box because Lakers are in town and he knows the chinese like Kobe, but kobe is a scratch not because of injury but ;just because' that will p--- him off. I remember when we had Olowokandi on the Celtics and the Cs came to town to play the Clippers I went to that game but I was  not happy because Pierce was a scratch - and in that particular case the Cap was a scratch due to injury. Imagine how upset I would have been if he was scratched on a coache's choice.

Believe it or not but NBA tix are expensive and some families plan for some of these games some scrape money together to make someone's day or dream (special days). Think about the father that maybe put some money together to get his child a ticket to the game because though he lives in Miami is youong child is a huge Duncan fan. That kid would be crushed. That is not what the NBA wants. I am sorry to say but Pop was wrong on this one, and I can see how moves like this can set the league up for litigation.


 












Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2012, 04:01:15 AM »

Offline jdz101

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Last time i checked Pop was the coach...

He is allowed to play or rest whomever he wants. That is what coaches do.


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Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #88 on: November 30, 2012, 04:07:31 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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This is not like going to a concert... this is a TEAM sport, meaning there are multiple players on a team, they are there to step in when a player is out (w/e the reason)... when you buy tickets to see a band/singer there are no guys waiting in the wings to step in for them!

You, as fans/businessmen of basketball KNOW going into every game there is a chance that you may not get to see your favorite players AHEAD of time! There are no guarantees (said or unsaid) on who you will see at a basketball game, that's why the team is named San Antonio Spurs and not Duncan, Manu, and Parker. If the fans are upset then that's on them for not knowing what sport they are watching!

If I go to see Usher in concert I am guaranteed to see him on stage, if I go to a Spurs game, I am guaranteed to see the Spurs play, not individual players... if I don't see Usher, I get a refund, if I don't see the SPURS play (if it's their fault), I get a refund. Duncan and Parker are NOT the Spurs, they are just players (who can change at any time) on the Spurs team!


I cannot say I totally agree witht his post.. Teams do not exist in a vaccum nor are teams faceless. To say you pay to watch a team and not individuals is a non sequitor because the team is made of individual players. These franchises have faces and they do market individual players. If I go to watch the Clippers I expect to see CP3 griffin and DeAndre, and there better be a good reason if they are scratched from the lineup. If players did not matter then teams would not market them and put them in ad campaigns to lure people to buy season tickets or even individual tickets.

I also disagree that the NBA is about chips. That is only for the fanatics (fans). Believe it or not there are alot of spectators that go to games just for entertainment and dont give a bleep who wins the chip. The real fans could probably not care less if their team rests players because real fans has their eye on the prize,  but think about the coporate executive that invites his business associates from china to a game at in his box because Lakers are in town and he knows the chinese like Kobe, but kobe is a scratch not because of injury but ;just because' that will p--- him off. I remember when we had Olowokandi on the Celtics and the Cs came to town to play the Clippers I went to that game but I was  not happy because Pierce was a scratch - and in that particular case the Cap was a scratch due to injury. Imagine how upset I would have been if he was scratched on a coache's choice.

Believe it or not but NBA tix are expensive and some families plan for some of these games some scrape money together to make someone's day or dream (special days). Think about the father that maybe put some money together to get his child a ticket to the game because though he lives in Miami is youong child is a huge Duncan fan. That kid would be crushed. That is not what the NBA wants. I am sorry to say but Pop was wrong on this one, and I can see how moves like this can set the league up for litigation.

This post is ridiculous.





















Everyone knows all of Tim Duncan's fans are at least 40.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players
« Reply #89 on: November 30, 2012, 04:08:38 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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WRONG!!

NBA advertizes gmaes to viewers and customers. There is no disclaimer, The advertizing is an offer somewhat that if you pay a certain amount for a ticket or a TV package thsi si what we promise you in return, the very best basketball players in the world. The NBA has to fulfill that promise ona nightly basis that is the promise they have made to consumers. Stern is a lawyer he understands this. The only reason you breach that contract is for impracticality or impossibility of performance. That is not what happened when Popovich decided to sit his stars.