Stern to fine Spurs for sitting players

[Eja117]

I offer this compromise......Pop refunds half the ticket price to all the fans in the arena and 5% of the advertising revenue to advertisers.  If he does that I have no problem with what he did. 

But taking a dump on the fans and sponsors without any regard for them isn't ok.

I see the point about the league fining Doc for sitting centers and whatnot, but the other natural extension is that Pop could sit them all during the finals and it's ok. Being a coach doesn't mean the team belongs to you or that it is subject to all your whims.

[dark_lord]

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business.

the nba is a business.  however, pop is not a business man.  he is a coach, and the best in the league for a long time.  his goal isn't winning tonight, it is winning the title.  the spurs have been an elite franchise for over a decade, they know what they are doing.

[hpantazo]

I offer this compromise......Pop refunds half the ticket price to all the fans in the arena and 5% of the advertising revenue to advertisers.  If he does that I have no problem with what he did. 

But taking a dump on the fans and sponsors without any regard for them isn't ok.

I see the point about the league fining Doc for sitting centers and whatnot, but the other natural extension is that Pop could sit them all during the finals and it's ok. Being a coach doesn't mean the team belongs to you or that it is subject to all your whims.

I don't agree with this. When fans buy tickets to a game there is no guarantee of who plays. Guys can be injured/suspended/benched/tired/slacking off/etc. Should celtics fans get refunded for every game that KG-Ray-Paul and Rondo sucked the last 2 years during the regular season because they were too dissinterested to try? There were some brutal home games against teams like the wizards and nets where it was obvious our guys gave less than 50% effort.

[Birdman]

or if stern fine spurs for players staying behind, this what i do if im Popovich....i would bring those players to the game but wouldnt play them or play them about 5 minutes,

[Eja117]

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business.

the nba is a business.  however, pop is not a business man.  he is a coach, and the best in the league for a long time.  his goal isn't winning tonight, it is winning the title.  the spurs have been an elite franchise for over a decade, they know what they are doing.

I totally get your point and you're absolutely right but just because he isn't a business man doesn't make him immune or above the business environment. Tons of non-businessmen have had to deal with the business end of things. I believe Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were both fired for example. Artists have to deal with business. NASA and science has to deal with business. He doesn't have to like it.  He has to unfortunately learn what some of the refs need to learn (but seem immune to under Stern). You are not the product. You never were the product. You will never be the product. You may not be above the product in any way.  You are the worker that produces the product. The product is what people are paying for. Now do your job and assist in producing it.  Or pay back all the consumers you cheated.

[Eja117]

I offer this compromise......Pop refunds half the ticket price to all the fans in the arena and 5% of the advertising revenue to advertisers.  If he does that I have no problem with what he did. 

But taking a dump on the fans and sponsors without any regard for them isn't ok.

I see the point about the league fining Doc for sitting centers and whatnot, but the other natural extension is that Pop could sit them all during the finals and it's ok. Being a coach doesn't mean the team belongs to you or that it is subject to all your whims.

I don't agree with this. When fans buy tickets to a game there is no guarantee of who plays. Guys can be injured/suspended/benched/tired/slacking off/etc. Should celtics fans get refunded for every game that KG-Ray-Paul and Rondo sucked the last 2 years during the regular season because they were too dissinterested to try? There were some brutal home games against teams like the wizards and nets where it was obvious our guys gave less than 50% effort.

In a perfect world....absolutely.   

[dark_lord]

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business.

the nba is a business.  however, pop is not a business man.  he is a coach, and the best in the league for a long time.  his goal isn't winning tonight, it is winning the title.  the spurs have been an elite franchise for over a decade, they know what they are doing.

I totally get your point and you're absolutely right but just because he isn't a business man doesn't make him immune or above the business environment. Tons of non-businessmen have had to deal with the business end of things. I believe Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were both fired for example. Artists have to deal with business. NASA and science has to deal with business. He doesn't have to like it.  He has to unfortunately learn what some of the refs need to learn (but seem immune to under Stern). You are not the product. You never were the product. You will never be the product. You may not be above the product in any way.  You are the worker that produces the product. The product is what people are paying for. Now do your job and assist in producing it.  Or pay back all the consumers you cheated.

i am willing to bet the spurs organization 1000% supports pop's decision making with coaching the team and the strategies he employs.

the fact is, fans buy a ticket that says spurs vs heat.....not lbj, wade, bosh vs manu, duncan, parker.  the nba is the one who markets the individuals. 

pop is the best at what he does and his strategies have been battle tested.  screw stern and his ego trip. he isnt a business man, he is a coach.  if the spurs are unhappy with how he does "business", they would fire him.  and that aint happening, lol

[Eja117]

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business.

the nba is a business.  however, pop is not a business man.  he is a coach, and the best in the league for a long time.  his goal isn't winning tonight, it is winning the title.  the spurs have been an elite franchise for over a decade, they know what they are doing.

I totally get your point and you're absolutely right but just because he isn't a business man doesn't make him immune or above the business environment. Tons of non-businessmen have had to deal with the business end of things. I believe Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were both fired for example. Artists have to deal with business. NASA and science has to deal with business. He doesn't have to like it.  He has to unfortunately learn what some of the refs need to learn (but seem immune to under Stern). You are not the product. You never were the product. You will never be the product. You may not be above the product in any way.  You are the worker that produces the product. The product is what people are paying for. Now do your job and assist in producing it.  Or pay back all the consumers you cheated.

i am willing to bet the spurs organization 1000% supports pop's decision making with coaching the team and the strategies he employs.

the fact is, fans buy a ticket that says spurs vs heat.....not lbj, wade, bosh vs manu, duncan, parker.  the nba is the one who markets the individuals. 

pop is the best at what he does and his strategies have been battle tested.  screw stern and his ego trip.

Ah yes. The laundry theory. The idea that as long as the people out there are wearing the right laundry the fan has nothing to complain about. All they have to do is trot someone out there wearing a jersey that says Spurs and you should feel lucky that you are in the presence of a genius coach. Who the heck are you as a spoiled paying fan to think that by buying a ticket to the Spurs that you are entitled to seeing actual specific members of the Spurs play?  Don't you understand strategy?
And by the way.  You thought that by buying a ticket to the Stones you would see Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. But you won't. It just says "Rolling Stones". It doesn't say Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. These guys have talent and were added to the band this morning. Feel lucky we didn't just roll some stones down a hill and take your money.
Heck. All we had to do was put some cowboy spurs on the court at the agreed to time and that would have been fine.  It's what the ticket says, right?

It's an interesting theory. 

[Kwhit10]

Pop is giving the finger to the NBA because they are now playing their 4th game in 5 nights AT Miami, and their 5th game in 7 nights they play Memphis.

The league screwed the Spurs with the schedule.

[action781]

I think the fans should be the consideration. They're the league's bosses/employers/consumers.  If I took my kids to a game like that and none of those guys were there I'd be pretty ticked. It's a little like if you buy a ticket to the Rolling Stones but they don't put Keith Richards or Mick Jagger out there cause they have another show next week and they want them rested up and they don't give you any money back, because buying a ticket to the Rolling Stones doesn't guarantee you'll see Mick Jagger. Actually I do sorta see it as a guarantee that if I buy tix to a game of the Spurs and Heat I will see the best healthy players of those teams play. Pop doesn't have to play them 48 minutes. He doesn't have to play them 28 minutes.

The corporate sponsors that pay to have commercials during national games have a stake too.

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business. Yes Stern is being a huge hypocrite here, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Even an evil blind squirrel finds a nut and he may have stumbled upon a decent point here.

If I was a fan, I would be very mad about this, so I can understand Stern's decision/feelings on this issues considering that he is trying to protect the fan here. 

Until you consider....

The spurs have played 10 games in 17 nights prior to tonight, including lots of games against elite teams and finishing an immediate 4 games in 5 nights all on the road.

Sorry Stern, YOU are the one who is at fault here.  Guys (especially older ones) are going to get tired when you put them through schedules like these and, potentially worse, are going to get hurt occassionally.  Who would be getting fined if star players got hurt due to fatigue in a game like this?  Stern has zero ground to stand on here tonight.

If the schedule was not like this, I would have Stern's back here, but he set himself up for this one.

[Eja117]

BTW ...this is tangential at best and I have no idea what the answer is, but if you buy tix to a Broadway show advertising a specific star and the star gets mono or something and the unknown understudy has do perform to you get any money back?  Cause if I'm paying to watch Star Trek with George Takei and William Shatner and I end up with William Hung and Angus T Jones I'm gonna be ticked

[dark_lord]

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business.

the nba is a business.  however, pop is not a business man.  he is a coach, and the best in the league for a long time.  his goal isn't winning tonight, it is winning the title.  the spurs have been an elite franchise for over a decade, they know what they are doing.

I totally get your point and you're absolutely right but just because he isn't a business man doesn't make him immune or above the business environment. Tons of non-businessmen have had to deal with the business end of things. I believe Thomas Edison and Henry Ford were both fired for example. Artists have to deal with business. NASA and science has to deal with business. He doesn't have to like it.  He has to unfortunately learn what some of the refs need to learn (but seem immune to under Stern). You are not the product. You never were the product. You will never be the product. You may not be above the product in any way.  You are the worker that produces the product. The product is what people are paying for. Now do your job and assist in producing it.  Or pay back all the consumers you cheated.

i am willing to bet the spurs organization 1000% supports pop's decision making with coaching the team and the strategies he employs.

the fact is, fans buy a ticket that says spurs vs heat.....not lbj, wade, bosh vs manu, duncan, parker.  the nba is the one who markets the individuals. 

pop is the best at what he does and his strategies have been battle tested.  screw stern and his ego trip.

Ah yes. The laundry theory. The idea that as long as the people out there are wearing the right laundry the fan has nothing to complain about. All they have to do is trot someone out there wearing a jersey that says Spurs and you should feel lucky that you are in the presence of a genius coach. Who the heck are you as a spoiled paying fan to think that by buying a ticket to the Spurs that you are entitled to seeing actual specific members of the Spurs play?  Don't you understand strategy?
And by the way.  You thought that by buying a ticket to the Stones you would see Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. But you won't. It just says "Rolling Stones". It doesn't say Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. These guys have talent and were added to the band this morning. Feel lucky we didn't just roll some stones down a hill and take your money.
Heck. All we had to do was put some cowboy spurs on the court at the agreed to time and that would have been fine.  It's what the ticket says, right?

It's an interesting theory.

classic over the top and extreme example stretching your point.  u want pop to refund fans' money....lol, good luck with that....way to be sensible and realistic.  have fun rambling with someone else.

[Eja117]

I think the fans should be the consideration. They're the league's bosses/employers/consumers.  If I took my kids to a game like that and none of those guys were there I'd be pretty ticked. It's a little like if you buy a ticket to the Rolling Stones but they don't put Keith Richards or Mick Jagger out there cause they have another show next week and they want them rested up and they don't give you any money back, because buying a ticket to the Rolling Stones doesn't guarantee you'll see Mick Jagger. Actually I do sorta see it as a guarantee that if I buy tix to a game of the Spurs and Heat I will see the best healthy players of those teams play. Pop doesn't have to play them 48 minutes. He doesn't have to play them 28 minutes.

The corporate sponsors that pay to have commercials during national games have a stake too.

Pop's moves are bad for business. The NBA is a business. Yes Stern is being a huge hypocrite here, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. Even an evil blind squirrel finds a nut and he may have stumbled upon a decent point here.

If I was a fan, I would be very mad about this, so I can understand Stern's decision/feelings on this issues considering that he is trying to protect the fan here. 

Until you consider....

The spurs have played 10 games in 17 nights prior to tonight, including lots of games against elite teams and finishing an immediate 4 games in 5 nights all on the road.

Sorry Stern, YOU are the one who is at fault here.  Guys (especially older ones) are going to get tired when you put them through schedules like these and, potentially worse, are going to get hurt occassionally.  Who would be getting fined if star players got hurt due to fatigue in a game like this?  Stern has zero ground to stand on here tonight.

If the schedule was not like this, I would have Stern's back here, but he set himself up for this one.

I would agree with all that. Pops could still play the guys 15 mins or something. They're pro athletes.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

This is not like going to a concert... this is a TEAM sport, meaning there are multiple players on a team, they are there to step in when a player is out (w/e the reason)... when you buy tickets to see a band/singer there are no guys waiting in the wings to step in for them!

You, as fans/businessmen of basketball KNOW going into every game there is a chance that you may not get to see your favorite players AHEAD of time! There are no guarantees (said or unsaid) on who you will see at a basketball game, that's why the team is named San Antonio Spurs and not Duncan, Manu, and Parker. If the fans are upset then that's on them for not knowing what sport they are watching!

If I go to see Usher in concert I am guaranteed to see him on stage, if I go to a Spurs game, I am guaranteed to see the Spurs play, not individual players... if I don't see Usher, I get a refund, if I don't see the SPURS play (if it's their fault), I get a refund. Duncan and Parker are NOT the Spurs, they are just players (who can change at any time) on the Spurs team!

[Kwhit10]

Why didn't Stern fine the Heat and the Celtics for this game that was on TNT
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201204240BOS.html