Author Topic: What's the difference between us and the spurs?  (Read 8804 times)

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Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2012, 02:58:11 AM »

Offline fitzhickey

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They don't have pierce, but they have Manu. Kg and Duncan are extremely similar. Rondo and Parker both great. Jet/clee vs Stephen Jackson or kawhi, then bass vs Dejuan, 2 undersized bigs
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Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2012, 04:37:39 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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6-11 Splitter and Bonner really help them.  6-7 Blair plays a lot bigger than his size too.  Diaw plays big too at times.

They shoot the three ball very well, roughly .38% as a team.  They rebound across the board and have a good rebounder in Duncan, we really do not have a good rebounder aside from Rondo.  KG was one at one time but 7 RPG from your C is mediocre to above average.  Duncan does 10 RPG still and 2.5 BPG.

Spurs also have Pop, who is an under rated coach in my opinion.   His guys always play hard and are fundamental.   He doesn't experiment but rather plays to his strengths.

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2012, 06:25:56 AM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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The coaching is the only constant difference....At the beginning of both, we had a great team, and they did..we had the big three....we won one ring, they won 3..or was it 4...of course you mined this post from my talk in the nj game yesterday...no big deal.....and instead of always trding rookies and not playing guys who rebound. popovich uses them and finds a way to make it work....! Anyone seen darko around...tony allen....a few others....!

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2012, 06:42:38 AM »

Online Who

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What's the difference between us and the spurs?

Besides wins and losses...

Is it simply chemistry? I mean looking at the roster and coaching they are incredibly similar; however, things just look easy for the spurs. While we look like trash.

Avery Bradley

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Sorry, that needs an explanation. 

2-3 years ago, Popovich (correctly) realized that his team could no longer be a high level defensive team. Tim Duncan's defense range had dropped, he lacked high level interior defensive help for Duncan and his perimeter defense was good but unexceptional.

Popovich (rightly) saw that his team had underutilized offensive talent and that by sacrificing some of his remaining team defense ... Pop could open up the offense and turn the Spurs into a high ranking offensive team. He (correctly) saw that the boost they would get offensively from changing his system was greater than the losses defensively that came with the system change.

The situation is not the same in Boston because Boston can still be a high level defensive team. They can be that because of Kevin Garnett's excellent defensive range as a starting center + the stellar backcourt defense they get from Rondo and Bradley + well above average swing defense from Pierce, Green and Lee.

So unlike Popovich and San Antonio, Doc and Celtics still have the capacity to be a high level defensive team so Doc has kept the team (somewhat) on that track. Rightly so. Doc could, like Popovich did, open the offense up a great deal more (sacrificing some defense for more offense) which Doc could easily do to get more out of weapons like Jason Terry and Jeff Green ... but I think staying with defense-first idea is a better option.

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In other words, Popovich's Spurs are built around their beautiful cohesive offense that gives them very good consistency in the regular season.

While Doc's Celtics continue to be built around their team defense which is currently misfiring and creating a lot of inconsistency in the team.

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And when Avery Bradley comes back, I think the team will get a big boost defensively ... and their defensive consistency will improve greatly.

It will lead to much more consistency for the team and more wins.

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Bradley is an important piece to the team identity and he is currently missing.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:58:32 AM by Who »

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2012, 07:06:41 AM »

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+1 for the Tiago Splitter comments. I think having a strong backup for Duncan who can maintain their defensive integrity is a big advantage for San Antonio's superior regular season consistency relative to Boston.

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2012, 07:19:31 AM »

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Reasons for defensive drop-off / inconsistent play

(1) Bradley missing. An All-League caliber guard defender.

(2) Terry as the starting shooting guard where he should never be due to his limitations as a defender/rebounder. Courtney Lee needs to resume starting duties until Bradley returns.

(3) Sullinger's atrocious defense. One of the worst defensive big men in the league playing regular minutes right now. Is hurting the team in a huge way.

(4) No replacement for Stiemsma who was a good defensive presence in the second half of the regular season last year. Matters more in the regular season than playoffs due to Garnett's decreased minutes (29mpg so almost 20mpg with no shot-blocker).

(5) Terry + Barbosa in the rotation together (41 minutes a night of limited defensive play).



When Bradley returns, numbers 1+3+5 should sort themselves out.

The Stiemsma issue is personnel related and it looks like Danny Ainge will need to find a solution in the trade market or in free agency to fix this problem. The Sullinger issue is unclear. Hopefully he'll improve enough as the season goes on to make this less of an issue but that is no sure thing.

Until those defensive issues, or at least some of those issues, are tackled ... the Celtics will continue to struggle for consistent form.

This is why I think getting Bradley back will give the team such a good boost. To their perimeter defense anyway.

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2012, 07:59:14 AM »

Offline jdz101

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Reasons for defensive drop-off / inconsistent play

(1) Bradley missing. An All-League caliber guard defender.

(2) Terry as the starting shooting guard where he should never be due to his limitations as a defender/rebounder. Courtney Lee needs to resume starting duties until Bradley returns.

(3) Sullinger's atrocious defense. One of the worst defensive big men in the league playing regular minutes right now. Is hurting the team in a huge way.

(4) No replacement for Stiemsma who was a good defensive presence in the second half of the regular season last year. Matters more in the regular season than playoffs due to Garnett's decreased minutes (29mpg so almost 20mpg with no shot-blocker).

(5) Terry + Barbosa in the rotation together (41 minutes a night of limited defensive play).



When Bradley returns, numbers 1+3+5 should sort themselves out.

The Stiemsma issue is personnel related and it looks like Danny Ainge will need to find a solution in the trade market or in free agency to fix this problem. The Sullinger issue is unclear. Hopefully he'll improve enough as the season goes on to make this less of an issue but that is no sure thing.

Until those defensive issues, or at least some of those issues, are tackled ... the Celtics will continue to struggle for consistent form.

This is why I think getting Bradley back will give the team such a good boost. To their perimeter defense anyway.

TP

You voiced exactly what I've been thinking. Terry and Barbosa just aren't meant to be playing against starters for long periods. They will be made to look good against bench guys where they can score the ball and play D against offensively limited players. Bradley will definitely help this if he is able to play 25 minutes and go full tilt defensively.

The number one priority for a backup center should be defense and rebounding. As far as scoring goes this team is more than ok.

I still think Varejao could be had for the right price, though I'm really not keen for Luke Walton to be added in there aswell. Which is what Cleveland wants. Not high on Gortat, especially if Phoenix want young bloods in return.


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Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2012, 08:20:17 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I see it as a problem rooted in the coaching difference.
Pop adjusts to his player's strengths.  Doc does not.  I've always thought Doc is overrated (vastly overrated) as a coach.  I think this team is exposing that this year.  I really think a better coach (one who's better at working with the roster he has rather than force feeding his system on his players if they're ill-suited to it which seems to be the case so far) would have this team playing more cohesively at this point in the season.

I do think Avery will help quite a bit when he returns however that will not automatically give all the new faces that missing comprehension of the defense.  Avery won't make JET or Barbosa play better D.  He won't be taking minutes from Sully so that he's not required to contribute this year as a rookie.  He won't help Jeff Green 'get it' and consistently play aggressive offense and defense.  He won't help Lee, JET, PP and others find their shot on those ice-cold shooting nights (like last night).  He won't solve the rebounding problems.

On a side note, it's just amazing how far Avery has come in the estimation of posters here.  A year ago the vast majority of people were ready to ship him out for a bag of basketballs and now he's being hailed (by many) as the savior of the team's season.  quite the turnaround in appreciation.  I like the kid and think he's got a bright future if he can stay healthy but he's not the miracle worker some people are hoping for.

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2012, 08:22:53 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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anybody the Spurs put into that system succeeds greatly. it doesnt matter if its a rookie, a red head, an undersized forward, a knucklehead with off court issues... anyone they put in their plays well for them. Its gotta be Pops coaching calls and system that allows them to be so successful.

And they have Duncan.
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Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2012, 08:27:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Better players + better coaches = better team
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Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2012, 09:34:20 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I've always kind of liked the Spurs, but now I'm going to actively root against them.  All this Spurs envy is starting to get on my nerves.


Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2012, 09:38:35 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Spurs are one of the most boring teams in the NBA and over the last 5 years have been the most overrated team in the league

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2012, 09:43:00 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Spurs are one of the most boring teams in the NBA and over the last 5 years have been the most overrated team in the league

Uhhhh this is the most overrated stance on the spurs. Good sound basketball isn't boring.
What makes the celtics any more exciting? Kgs chest thumping and screaming on the jumbotron? Not rebounding? Idk

2 big differences.....doc isn't popovich and kg is NOT Tim Duncan sorry

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2012, 09:46:25 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Spurs are one of the most boring teams in the NBA and over the last 5 years have been the most overrated team in the league

Uhhhh this is the most overrated stance on the spurs. Good sound basketball isn't boring.


2 big differences.....doc isn't popovich and kg is NOT Tim Duncan sorry

I disagree it is very boring. It also doesn't help that the biggest personality on the team is the coach

Your right KG is better than Duncan

Re: What's the difference between us and the spurs?
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2012, 09:51:13 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Spurs are one of the most boring teams in the NBA and over the last 5 years have been the most overrated team in the league

Uhhhh this is the most overrated stance on the spurs. Good sound basketball isn't boring.


2 big differences.....doc isn't popovich and kg is NOT Tim Duncan sorry

I disagree it is very boring. It also doesn't help that the biggest personality on the team is the coach

Your right KG is better than Duncan



So personality means more than sound basketball, and always making the right play? Kg isn't currently or historically better than Duncan...take off the green glasses. They met a recently...Duncan 15 boards...kg 3

 

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