Rondo suspension thread..

[kozlodoev]

Safety of the fans? The most dangerous thing that can happen is losing their soda and fries.

How do you figure?  When 200 pound guys are pushing and shoving and falling down, how is there not a potential of physical danger to fans?

Again, someone tell me how that is any different that diving into the stands for a loose ball?  I think if you sit court side, there is some personal responsibility involved.  Take care of yourself and be aware and ready to take care of someone a little more fragile if need be.  Fighting, hustle plays, tripping, heck - even a ball can mess up a fan.  Of course if you get hit by a ball, Kevin Durant might come and give you a kiss.

Diving for a loose ball is part of the game. A brawl in the stands isn't. Missing the Bruins much? 

[StartOrien]

Good point on The Basketball Jones - JR Smith and Nate Robinson had a fight spill out to the stands that resulted in 10 games each

EDIT: Found the video. Forgot about this one; which is much, much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjFBMKcNY4

[RJ87]

Jackie M. ripping Rondo for his immaturity and lack of control and ripping the team big time on WEEI right now.

I respect Jackie immensely, but I don't think Rondo lost control at all.  I think he did exactly what he meant to do.  I don't think he expected it to end up in the stands the way it did though. 

I think Rondo thought he would push Kardashian, he would fight back, they would get a couple technicals, and it would be done.  But it got out of hand.

Agreed.

Rondo pushed Kris, there's no questioning that. But if you watch the footage (and I have, ad nauseum) after the push, Rondo looks like he's trying to help up KG and the Kris grabs his arm sleeve and then it really escalated.

[thirstyboots18]

Someone please remind me...how many games suspension did Wade get after he dislocated Rondo's elbow? It wasn't even a tech 2, if I remember correctly. How about Tim Duncan's ejection for laughing?  Technical fouls are subjectively called by biased refs and are ruining the game.  Big Baby diving into the third row to get a ball is a lot more dangerous to fans than Rondo pushing Humphries, IMO.  How many games did Davis  get for that?   I just don't get it, I guess.  Fans sit in the front row to be close to the action.  If you don't want to get too close, sit somewhere else. 

[Chris]

Jackie M. ripping Rondo for his immaturity and lack of control and ripping the team big time on WEEI right now.

I respect Jackie immensely, but I don't think Rondo lost control at all.  I think he did exactly what he meant to do.  I don't think he expected it to end up in the stands the way it did though. 

I think Rondo thought he would push Kardashian, he would fight back, they would get a couple technicals, and it would be done.  But it got out of hand.

Agreed.

Rondo pushed Kris, there's no questioning that. But if you watch the footage (and I have, ad nauseum) after the push, Rondo looks like he's trying to help up KG and the Kris grabs his arm sleeve and then it really escalated.

Eh, I think Rondo did keep going at him.  But I just don't think he meant it to escalate like it did, as they fell backwards into the crowd. 

[Chris]

Someone please remind me...how many games suspension did Wade get after he dislocated Rondo's elbow? It wasn't even a tech 2, if I remember correctly. How about Tim Duncan's ejection for laughing?  Technical fouls are subjectively called by biased refs and are ruining the game.  Big Baby diving into the third row to get a ball is a lot more dangerous to fans than Rondo pushing Humphries, IMO.  How many games did Davis  get for that?   I just don't get it, I guess.  Fans sit in the front row to be close to the action.  If you don't want to get too close, sit somewhere else.

I think its simple.  Like I said before, its about legal liability.  And the league is liable if things outside the game of basketball (like fighting) endangers fans. 

[contramundum]

Safety of the fans? The most dangerous thing that can happen is losing their soda and fries.

How do you figure?  When 200 pound guys are pushing and shoving and falling down, how is there not a potential of physical danger to fans?

Again, someone tell me how that is any different that diving into the stands for a loose ball?  I think if you sit court side, there is some personal responsibility involved.  Take care of yourself and be aware and ready to take care of someone a little more fragile if need be.  Fighting, hustle plays, tripping, heck - even a ball can mess up a fan.  Of course if you get hit by a ball, Kevin Durant might come and give you a kiss.

Diving for a loose ball is part of the game. A brawl in the stands isn't. Missing the Bruins much? 

You guys are right - it isn't an official sanctioned part of the game.  Still, the potential for injury is the same as someone diving into the stands for a loose ball.  It doesn't change that people should be aware of there being dangers of sitting court side.  That's why I think the "endangering the fans" argument is weak.  I could understand if they chased each other a few rows back and fought in some kids lap, but the scrum was right there where the camera man and the rich people sit.  It was an unintended and spontaneous event that could have caused the same damage to someone as Brandon Bass chasing a ball. 

With that said, I think most fans would really dig Rondo trying to get at Humphries right on em.

And I don't really watch hockey unless I got tickets.

[CelticHooligan3]

One aspect that hasn't been discussed is how effective Celtics security was in diffusing the situation. The one bald guy in the suit especially who put himself rather awkwardly in between Wallace and Garnett most likely saved Garnett from missing games. Thankless job but this fan appreciates that type of dedication.

This is a storm we will have to weather. But it would be a whole lot worse if we're sitting here this morning discussing BOTH Garnett and Rondo being suspended. We will be alright and if were lucky this could be a spark and turning point for the season.

[kozlodoev]

Good point on The Basketball Jones - JR Smith and Nate Robinson had a fight spill out to the stands that resulted in 10 games each

EDIT: Found the video. Forgot about this one; which is much, much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjFBMKcNY4

It escalated more, but the part where the two got tossed into the stands is pretty much identical.

[contramundum]

Someone please remind me...how many games suspension did Wade get after he dislocated Rondo's elbow? It wasn't even a tech 2, if I remember correctly. How about Tim Duncan's ejection for laughing?  Technical fouls are subjectively called by biased refs and are ruining the game.  Big Baby diving into the third row to get a ball is a lot more dangerous to fans than Rondo pushing Humphries, IMO.  How many games did Davis  get for that?   I just don't get it, I guess.  Fans sit in the front row to be close to the action.  If you don't want to get too close, sit somewhere else.

I think its simple.  Like I said before, its about legal liability.  And the league is liable if things outside the game of basketball (like fighting) endangers fans.

I want to address this too - While fighting isn't a sanctioned part of the game like Hockey, it is something that can happen and will happen from time to time.  My worry is that if you bring liability into the equation then the NBA would be forced to make rule changes and adjustments to keep hustle plays to a minimum, or put nets up to catch balls before they smash into infants.

And I am not sure that the league would be liable for a injury sustained by a fighting player accidentally falling on them during an altercation.  In fact, I'm certain that the lawyer might make the same argument I just did.  You pay your money, you take your chances.  Of course if that ever happened there would be rule changes or waivers to be signed by the court side fans.

[indeedproceed]

You guys are right - it isn't an official sanctioned part of the game.  Still, the potential for injury is the same as someone diving into the stands for a loose ball.  It doesn't change that people should be aware of there being dangers of sitting court side.  That's why I think the "endangering the fans" argument is weak.  I could understand if they chased each other a few rows back and fought in some kids lap, but the scrum was right there where the camera man and the rich people sit.  It was an unintended and spontaneous event that could have caused the same damage to someone as Brandon Bass chasing a ball. 

I don't agree with this. To make a hyperbolic comparison, it is kind of like comparing an unintentional car accident to a car accident involving a drunk driver.

While the results might be exactly the same, one of them involves a willful choice to break the law and put others in danger, while the other is just happenstance.

[Chris]

You guys are right - it isn't an official sanctioned part of the game.  Still, the potential for injury is the same as someone diving into the stands for a loose ball.  It doesn't change that people should be aware of there being dangers of sitting court side.  That's why I think the "endangering the fans" argument is weak.  I could understand if they chased each other a few rows back and fought in some kids lap, but the scrum was right there where the camera man and the rich people sit.  It was an unintended and spontaneous event that could have caused the same damage to someone as Brandon Bass chasing a ball. 

I don't agree with this. To make a hyperbolic comparison, it is kind of like comparing an unintentional car accident to a car accident involving a drunk driver.

While the results might be exactly the same, one of them involves a willful choice to break the law and put others in danger, while the other is just happenstance.

I will use your comparison, but frame it differently. 

When you get in a car, you take on a certain amount of risk, that you may be hurt.  There are plenty of dangerous things that you can't control, that can cause you injury. 

If you get in an accident because say, a cat ran out in front of your car, and you swerved and hit a tree, well, that was the risk of driving.  If you got into an accident because a drunk driver was driving 80 MPH on the wrong side of the road...that goes beyond the range of a reasonable risk. 

[pearljammer10]

Good point on The Basketball Jones - JR Smith and Nate Robinson had a fight spill out to the stands that resulted in 10 games each

EDIT: Found the video. Forgot about this one; which is much, much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjFBMKcNY4

It escalated more, but the part where the two got tossed into the stands is pretty much identical.

Like you said. Much worse but going into the stands was very similar. Seeing something like this makes me think we will see more games then we think.

[contramundum]

You guys are right - it isn't an official sanctioned part of the game.  Still, the potential for injury is the same as someone diving into the stands for a loose ball.  It doesn't change that people should be aware of there being dangers of sitting court side.  That's why I think the "endangering the fans" argument is weak.  I could understand if they chased each other a few rows back and fought in some kids lap, but the scrum was right there where the camera man and the rich people sit.  It was an unintended and spontaneous event that could have caused the same damage to someone as Brandon Bass chasing a ball. 

I don't agree with this. To make a hyperbolic comparison, it is kind of like comparing an unintentional car accident to a car accident involving a drunk driver.

While the results might be exactly the same, one of them involves a willful choice to break the law and put others in danger, while the other is just happenstance.

Glad you said hyperbolic I accidentally didn't see that on my first time through and thought, "Dang, now they're comparing what Rondo did to drunk driving." - I think Chris might have framed your point a bit better since even in an unintentional car accident there are still consequences to the one at fault.  It isn't ever just happenstance, there is always a reason and a person at fault in an accident. 

To expand upon your analogy:  Let's say I am worried about getting in an accident and getting hurt.  Do I ride a motorcycle or do I buy an SUV?  It is your personal responsibility to choose between safety and fun, or maybe somewhere in between.  I went to see the C's in Orlando the other day and was very glad to sit just a bit behind the barrier with my pregnant wife!  I wouldn't have taken her court side even if the opportunity presented itself. 

Even with that said though, I don't like fighting, but I understand that emotions run high in competitive sports and sometimes pushing, shoving and brawling happens. I think it is part of the game, just not an official part of it. 

Also can anyone remember a time where someone got hurt because a player fell on them?  I mean seriously hurt, not just a bruise.  I was sitting near a guy who got knock out cold by a hockey puck at an IHL game and we were like twenty rows back!

I appreciate the civil discourse on this sort of stuff.

[Chris]

According to Wojo (in a surpisingly balanced column), the consensus among GMs he has talked to is 2-3 games for Rondo. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--rajon-rondo-s-misplaced--loyalty--in-scuffle-with-kris-humphries-hurts-celtics-165109932.html