Author Topic: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record  (Read 4407 times)

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Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2012, 03:31:40 PM »

Offline snively

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While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will?  Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah? 
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Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2012, 03:40:39 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.
I really believe it all depends on the stat.  Assists, IMO, are not a selfish stat.  Assists lead to wins.  On the other hand, most three pointers may or may not point that way.  You really need to be a high percentage shooter to have a positive effect with that shot, and that  that shot could be considered a lot more more selfish .
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Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2012, 03:49:24 PM »

Offline alajet

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I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.

It happens.

But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.

Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.

Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.

I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.

(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)

Pretty much sums it up. TP

Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.

Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)

Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second.  Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him. 

A Celtics win tonight and a great game from Rondo against Deron Williams' Nets would be a nice way to start to cement that position.

So I can assume that nothing that Chris Paul does tonight will have any impact on that comparison?  I'd say comparisons like this should be less at the whim of a week or two stretch of the season (or one game against a top opponent).  Coaching, situations, matchups, teammates, etc... are all fluid in nature but skill level doesn't really change from week to week. 

I'd find it hard to believe that CP3 was a better "player" at the start of the season and Rondo is the best "player" now.  We're only 14 games into the season.  Don't let 14 games color your judgment that much.  Some think CP3 is the better player.  Some think Rondo is the better player.  Thinking that changes on a weekly basis is kind of folly, IMO.

I agree with this. In fact, there is no prerequisite change in coaching, matchups, situations. Performance goes up and down, too. Chris Paul and Deron Williams have both drops in their scoring this far into the season; respectively 3.7 and 4.3 points per game and Deron Williams is shooting a career worst 39%. Partially because they are taking about three shots less than they did last season.
At any case, slumps especially in shooting are understandable and cannot possibly used as a measure of a player's abilities. That's the reason stats are not trustworthy.

It's very hard to compare Rondo with these players. He plays a couple of more minutes per game and dominates the offensive sets more. I will definitely not suggest that his stats are inflated, but it's obvious that this team structure helps the player get a good number of assists. Those little passes to KG and Bass to set up them for jumpshots are quite easy for the elite passers of this league.
Then again, I'm not taking anything away from Rondo here. I have already stated in one of threads that he's the most Kidd-alike player in the league right now. In other words, he has the most flashy assists amongst all, it seems to me. His rebounding numbers and tendency to get close to a triple-double once in a while also resemble Kidd's play from a certain perspective. He lacks a consistent three-point shot, though, something Kidd has developed over the course of his career.

Up until his relatively poor season with the Nets, I always had a tendency to pick Deron over Paul, because his size gave him a natural advantage over most of the skilled point guards in this league and he has nearly all the time had the better of Chris Paul in their duels.
Now, Rondo seems to be playing at an even higher level than those two, but I don't know if playing at a higher level for a certain period really makes you the best in your job.
This season's playoffs will be a good indicator. Despite losing four in a row, Clippers picked up quality wins to start the season and look set to be a good candidate out there in the west. Nets have a relatively limited bench in terms of production, but their starting core is nothing to look over. And the Celtics are trying to win the east again.
With all three surrounded with considerable talent, I'll be looking forward to see which one manages to impact their respective team's play-off run and lengthen it the most.

Back on topic (that was one long off-topic piece of writing from me now), I don't think 14.5 apg is something achievable.
Honestly, I don't get how John Stockton was able to be so amazing to record 7 seasons with 1000+ assists.
For comparison, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo has a combined number of zero if we were to look at 1000 assists barrier.

All in all, Stockton's records should better stay as Stockton's records.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2012, 04:19:57 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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Would be cool if Stockton attended tonight's game, and if ESPN broadcasts rondos 48th game next month with magic Johnson.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2012, 04:29:15 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.

It happens.

But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.

Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.

Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.

I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.

(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)

Pretty much sums it up. TP

Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.

Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)

Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second.  Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him. 


  What was so fantastic about Paul's start to the season?

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2012, 04:48:00 PM »

Offline alley oop

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While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will?  Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah?

He's playing with some injuries.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2012, 04:53:00 PM »

Offline alajet

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I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.

It happens.

But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.

Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.

Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.

I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.

(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)

Pretty much sums it up. TP

Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.

Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)

Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second.  Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him. 


  What was so fantastic about Paul's start to the season?


I thought he was pretty much what you would expect. Nothing unreal.

While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will?  Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah?

He's playing with some injuries.

True. Nothing serious to cause him miss time yet, but still disturbing.