Author Topic: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor  (Read 8932 times)

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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2012, 11:10:22 AM »

Online alley oop

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Before we get excited about Gasol, can anyone explain the clear and unmistakable decline in his game through last season and the beginning of this one?

Mike
Part of the reason: "Gasol playing through tendinitis".

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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2012, 11:52:08 AM »

Offline Moranis

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We'd have to send out somewhere between $17 million and $18 million in salary to bring Gasol back.  That's a lot to come up with.

I believe Lee, Bass, and Green would get it done economically.

Yeah, but then I think its a no-go for either team.  Its a lot of future salary for mediocre production for LA, and its opening up too many new holes for the C's.
New holes?  Boston is trading 3 backups for a greatly improved starting lineup.  I think Boston would have to make that trade if it was out as it clearly upgrades Boston's starting unit (and it shaves years in salary on the back end). 

PG - Rondo, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Pietrus?
PF - Gasol, Sullinger
C - Garnett, Wilcox

I think this team is much closer to a title than the one Boston currently has and since this is an old team you make that move and don't give it a second thought.


I also think it improves L.A. title chances as well since they have no depth and thus they might actually make the trade.  Also, it will also be easier for them to move any one of the 3 going forward if they need to, then to try to move Gasol.

PG - Nash, Blake
SG - Bryant, Lee
SF - World Peace, Green
PF - Bass, Jamison
C - Howard, Hill

I agree.  Though I think we'd have to add quite a bit to sweeten it for LA.  Barbosa is a guy who would be a particularly big addition for them, maybe Wilcox too.  Then a bunch of picks. 

Nash/Barbosa
Kobe/Lee
MWP/Green
Green/Bass
Howard/Hill (or Wilcox)

That looks like a D'Antoni thoroughbred team to me.

Meanwhile

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/(midseason deadwood)
KG/Sully
Pau/KG

We get a little slow up front, but we're big and powerful enough to make up for it.  And our holes aren't too hard to fill (K-Mart as a 4th big and Pietrus would be a coup).
I don't think we'd have to cough up anything more than Bass, Lee and Green for Gasol.  that's plenty.  3 starter quality players that are still in their prime for an aging, overpaid player on the decline.  I think that package is more than enough for Gasol.  certainly worth more than LA paid for him initially when he was in his prime.
Uh Marc Gasol by himself is worth more than the three Celtics not to mention the various other picks and pieces the Lakers gave up.

  Pau was 27 at the time, not in his 30s and on the downswing. We got KG at about the same time, I doubt if we traded him now we'd base his worth on what we gave up for him in 2007.
Sure but I'd still rather have Marc Gasol than Bass, Green, and Lee combined.
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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2012, 12:18:21 PM »

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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2012, 12:38:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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We'd have to send out somewhere between $17 million and $18 million in salary to bring Gasol back.  That's a lot to come up with.

I believe Lee, Bass, and Green would get it done economically.

Yeah, but then I think its a no-go for either team.  Its a lot of future salary for mediocre production for LA, and its opening up too many new holes for the C's.
New holes?  Boston is trading 3 backups for a greatly improved starting lineup.  I think Boston would have to make that trade if it was out as it clearly upgrades Boston's starting unit (and it shaves years in salary on the back end). 

PG - Rondo, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Pietrus?
PF - Gasol, Sullinger
C - Garnett, Wilcox

I think this team is much closer to a title than the one Boston currently has and since this is an old team you make that move and don't give it a second thought.


I also think it improves L.A. title chances as well since they have no depth and thus they might actually make the trade.  Also, it will also be easier for them to move any one of the 3 going forward if they need to, then to try to move Gasol.

PG - Nash, Blake
SG - Bryant, Lee
SF - World Peace, Green
PF - Bass, Jamison
C - Howard, Hill

I agree.  Though I think we'd have to add quite a bit to sweeten it for LA.  Barbosa is a guy who would be a particularly big addition for them, maybe Wilcox too.  Then a bunch of picks. 

Nash/Barbosa
Kobe/Lee
MWP/Green
Green/Bass
Howard/Hill (or Wilcox)

That looks like a D'Antoni thoroughbred team to me.

Meanwhile

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/(midseason deadwood)
KG/Sully
Pau/KG

We get a little slow up front, but we're big and powerful enough to make up for it.  And our holes aren't too hard to fill (K-Mart as a 4th big and Pietrus would be a coup).
I don't think we'd have to cough up anything more than Bass, Lee and Green for Gasol.  that's plenty.  3 starter quality players that are still in their prime for an aging, overpaid player on the decline.  I think that package is more than enough for Gasol.  certainly worth more than LA paid for him initially when he was in his prime.
Uh Marc Gasol by himself is worth more than the three Celtics not to mention the various other picks and pieces the Lakers gave up.

  Pau was 27 at the time, not in his 30s and on the downswing. We got KG at about the same time, I doubt if we traded him now we'd base his worth on what we gave up for him in 2007.
Sure but I'd still rather have Marc Gasol than Bass, Green, and Lee combined.

  Just like we'd like to get a 5 year younger Pau. His worth is much less than it was when the Lakers traded for him.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2012, 12:51:49 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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We'd have to send out somewhere between $17 million and $18 million in salary to bring Gasol back.  That's a lot to come up with.

I believe Lee, Bass, and Green would get it done economically.

Yeah, but then I think its a no-go for either team.  Its a lot of future salary for mediocre production for LA, and its opening up too many new holes for the C's.
New holes?  Boston is trading 3 backups for a greatly improved starting lineup.  I think Boston would have to make that trade if it was out as it clearly upgrades Boston's starting unit (and it shaves years in salary on the back end). 

PG - Rondo, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Pietrus?
PF - Gasol, Sullinger
C - Garnett, Wilcox

I think this team is much closer to a title than the one Boston currently has and since this is an old team you make that move and don't give it a second thought.


I also think it improves L.A. title chances as well since they have no depth and thus they might actually make the trade.  Also, it will also be easier for them to move any one of the 3 going forward if they need to, then to try to move Gasol.

PG - Nash, Blake
SG - Bryant, Lee
SF - World Peace, Green
PF - Bass, Jamison
C - Howard, Hill

I agree.  Though I think we'd have to add quite a bit to sweeten it for LA.  Barbosa is a guy who would be a particularly big addition for them, maybe Wilcox too.  Then a bunch of picks. 

Nash/Barbosa
Kobe/Lee
MWP/Green
Green/Bass
Howard/Hill (or Wilcox)

That looks like a D'Antoni thoroughbred team to me.

Meanwhile

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/(midseason deadwood)
KG/Sully
Pau/KG

We get a little slow up front, but we're big and powerful enough to make up for it.  And our holes aren't too hard to fill (K-Mart as a 4th big and Pietrus would be a coup).
I don't think we'd have to cough up anything more than Bass, Lee and Green for Gasol.  that's plenty.  3 starter quality players that are still in their prime for an aging, overpaid player on the decline.  I think that package is more than enough for Gasol.  certainly worth more than LA paid for him initially when he was in his prime.
Uh Marc Gasol by himself is worth more than the three Celtics not to mention the various other picks and pieces the Lakers gave up.

  Pau was 27 at the time, not in his 30s and on the downswing. We got KG at about the same time, I doubt if we traded him now we'd base his worth on what we gave up for him in 2007.
Sure but I'd still rather have Marc Gasol than Bass, Green, and Lee combined.

  Just like we'd like to get a 5 year younger Pau. His worth is much less than it was when the Lakers traded for him.
and Marc was a complete unknown quantity as a player then, just a throw-in in that trade so what you're saying about Marc being worth more than what we'd offer now is completely incorrect.  At the time of that trade, he was worth exactly what he was --  another Euro player prospect that hadn't played a game in the NBA and was a raw prospect.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 01:18:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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We'd have to send out somewhere between $17 million and $18 million in salary to bring Gasol back.  That's a lot to come up with.

I believe Lee, Bass, and Green would get it done economically.

Yeah, but then I think its a no-go for either team.  Its a lot of future salary for mediocre production for LA, and its opening up too many new holes for the C's.
New holes?  Boston is trading 3 backups for a greatly improved starting lineup.  I think Boston would have to make that trade if it was out as it clearly upgrades Boston's starting unit (and it shaves years in salary on the back end). 

PG - Rondo, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Pietrus?
PF - Gasol, Sullinger
C - Garnett, Wilcox

I think this team is much closer to a title than the one Boston currently has and since this is an old team you make that move and don't give it a second thought.


I also think it improves L.A. title chances as well since they have no depth and thus they might actually make the trade.  Also, it will also be easier for them to move any one of the 3 going forward if they need to, then to try to move Gasol.

PG - Nash, Blake
SG - Bryant, Lee
SF - World Peace, Green
PF - Bass, Jamison
C - Howard, Hill

I agree.  Though I think we'd have to add quite a bit to sweeten it for LA.  Barbosa is a guy who would be a particularly big addition for them, maybe Wilcox too.  Then a bunch of picks. 

Nash/Barbosa
Kobe/Lee
MWP/Green
Green/Bass
Howard/Hill (or Wilcox)

That looks like a D'Antoni thoroughbred team to me.

Meanwhile

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Terry
Pierce/(midseason deadwood)
KG/Sully
Pau/KG

We get a little slow up front, but we're big and powerful enough to make up for it.  And our holes aren't too hard to fill (K-Mart as a 4th big and Pietrus would be a coup).
I don't think we'd have to cough up anything more than Bass, Lee and Green for Gasol.  that's plenty.  3 starter quality players that are still in their prime for an aging, overpaid player on the decline.  I think that package is more than enough for Gasol.  certainly worth more than LA paid for him initially when he was in his prime.
Uh Marc Gasol by himself is worth more than the three Celtics not to mention the various other picks and pieces the Lakers gave up.

  Pau was 27 at the time, not in his 30s and on the downswing. We got KG at about the same time, I doubt if we traded him now we'd base his worth on what we gave up for him in 2007.
Sure but I'd still rather have Marc Gasol than Bass, Green, and Lee combined.

  Just like we'd like to get a 5 year younger Pau. His worth is much less than it was when the Lakers traded for him.
and Marc was a complete unknown quantity as a player then, just a throw-in in that trade so what you're saying about Marc being worth more than what we'd offer now is completely incorrect.  At the time of that trade, he was worth exactly what he was --  another Euro player prospect that hadn't played a game in the NBA and was a raw prospect.
I'll give you he was a bit unknown, but as a rookie he averaged 12/7.5 and as I said previously was in the middle of a MVP season in the second best league in the world at the time of the trade.  You are making him out to be Fab Melo, which he clearly was not.  Did Memphis truly know he would be a 14/8 career player, no, but they absolutely thought he could be that and could be that not that far in the future, which is why they insisted on him being included in the trade.  He wasn't just some throw in and hope we hit it big, Memphis wanted him and they wanted him for the obvious reason that he is a good player.

Memphis also got 2 first rounders and another very recent first rounder in the trade in addition to Gasol and a lot of cap relief (which led to Randolph).  That trade isn't anywhere near the highway robbery that people make it out to be.  Sure it was a cap dumping move but those happen all the time and a lot of the time the team dumping the salary gets no where near the talent that Memphis got back.
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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 02:40:35 PM »

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The trade was not as bad as it originally seemed. The biggest issue was at the time it was looked upon as Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol.

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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 02:42:29 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Why would we do this?  We can get Gortat for the cost of $7M/year or Gasol for the cost of $19M/year.  Gortat is younger, more athletic, a better shotblocker, comparable rebounder...for less than half the price.

Part of the Laker's biggest problem with Gasol+Bynum was a lack of speed which made them sicky at defending the P&R. We already have crap P&R defense, why add to that?

Gasol is a much more dangerous player than Gortat.  One of the most lethal post games in the league.  And while he wouldn't improve our pnr defense, he would, like Gortat, allow us to keep a rim protector in the game when KG is resting. And KG is a much better frontcourt mate for him than Bynum or Howard.  KG spreads the floor beautifully, passes very well in high/low actions, and can play the 4 defensively at a high level.  Further, KG/Pau poses all kinds of match-up problems for opponents - way too much size and skill for just about any team to match-up with comfortably - while also being above-average defensively.

Is Gasol really above average defensively these days?

My biggest concern with Gasol is effort/energy.  He seems to be one of the worst players of the last 5 years when it comes to guys who play well in the regular season, and then puts up 5 point, 4 rebound efforts in the playoffs.

He's soft as Kleenex.

You will not see a hint of toughness or hustle from him.  He won't dive for loose balls.

Gortat is probably a better rebounder and shotblocker.

Age is a big thing too. When KG and Pierce retire Gasol won't be far off, but Gortat will still he not far off his prime. 

plus that ugly contract...if anything we want to rid ourselves of ugly contracts.

I just don't think soft guys who only play in the regular season are the type of guys Boston wants to pay $20M/year for.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »

Offline Ersatz

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Is Gasol really above average defensively these days?

My biggest concern with Gasol is effort/energy.  He seems to be one of the worst players of the last 5 years when it comes to guys who play well in the regular season, and then puts up 5 point, 4 rebound efforts in the playoffs.

He's soft as Kleenex.

You will not see a hint of toughness or hustle from him.  He won't dive for loose balls.

Gortat is probably a better rebounder and shotblocker.

Age is a big thing too. When KG and Pierce retire Gasol won't be far off, but Gortat will still he not far off his prime. 

plus that ugly contract...if anything we want to rid ourselves of ugly contracts.

I just don't think soft guys who only play in the regular season are the type of guys Boston wants to pay $20M/year for.

The Celtics are paying Jeff Green $36 million and he sucks at the game of basketball. I'd rather pay $38 million to Gasol, who is good or even great at the game of basketball. Yes, he seems to have declined a bit, but I think that's a lot more poor coaching, Kobe, and, now, a system that doesn't utilize his low-post skills. The Celtics could more than use his post play. They'd be a terrific offense with him on the floor.

I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 03:23:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Is Gasol really above average defensively these days?

My biggest concern with Gasol is effort/energy.  He seems to be one of the worst players of the last 5 years when it comes to guys who play well in the regular season, and then puts up 5 point, 4 rebound efforts in the playoffs.

He's soft as Kleenex.

You will not see a hint of toughness or hustle from him.  He won't dive for loose balls.

Gortat is probably a better rebounder and shotblocker.

Age is a big thing too. When KG and Pierce retire Gasol won't be far off, but Gortat will still he not far off his prime. 

plus that ugly contract...if anything we want to rid ourselves of ugly contracts.

I just don't think soft guys who only play in the regular season are the type of guys Boston wants to pay $20M/year for.

The Celtics are paying Jeff Green $36 million and he sucks at the game of basketball. I'd rather pay $38 million to Gasol, who is good or even great at the game of basketball. Yes, he seems to have declined a bit, but I think that's a lot more poor coaching, Kobe, and, now, a system that doesn't utilize his low-post skills. The Celtics could more than use his post play. They'd be a terrific offense with him on the floor.

I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

somehow , something tells me  Green would fit the Lakers better than the Celtics and I can see Gasol having an nice offensive impact (EVERYGAME) for the Celtics.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 03:38:47 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

Green for Andris Biedrins?  Green/Bass for Carlos Boozer?  Green/Lee for Hedo Turkoglu?
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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 03:45:38 PM »

Offline Ersatz

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I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

Green for Andris Biedrins?  Green/Bass for Carlos Boozer?  Green/Lee for Hedo Turkoglu?

Good one. I owe you a TP for that.

I was of course being hyperbolic. (Though I could almost make a case how Boozer might fit in this roster. But I still don't want any part of him.)

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »

Offline Ersatz

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somehow , something tells me  Green would fit the Lakers better than the Celtics and I can see Gasol having an nice offensive impact (EVERYGAME) for the Celtics.

Honestly, I don't see why the Lakers wouldn't do the Bass-Lee-Green for Gasol deal. Talent- and need-wise, it seems like a good fit: they get high-quality, relatively, backups for Kobe and Whirled Peas; they get a good outside shooter in Bass, which Gasol is not providing; in general they make upgrades in perimeter shooting, a huge problem for them; they create more spacing for Howard-Nash pick-and-rolls; they get rid of a soon-to-be-disgruntled big contract.

Of course they take on the same amount of money for a longer time. But I'd think the smaller contracts would be easier to move in a year or two than the big Gasol contract.

Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 03:58:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

Green for Andris Biedrins?  Green/Bass for Carlos Boozer?  Green/Lee for Hedo Turkoglu?
I'd honestly consider the first two and probably end up doing them.  The last, no thank you.
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Re: Celtics Have Expressed Interest in Gasol - HW rumor
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 07:48:13 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'd be in favor of almost any trade that gets Jeff Green off the Celtics roster.

Green for Andris Biedrins?  Green/Bass for Carlos Boozer?  Green/Lee for Hedo Turkoglu?

Hedo  ;D   ;D  ;D  LoL ...you are despert to trade him ..too funny !!!

 

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