Author Topic: More Time, or Just Right?  (Read 1198 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

More Time, or Just Right?
« on: November 26, 2012, 11:23:16 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17101
  • Tommy Points: 1540
There are two players on the roster who have been pretty productive up to this point -- more productive on a per-minute basis than the player ahead of them in the rotation.


Barbosa (14.0 min): 17.6 pts, 4.2 ast, 2.8 reb, .474 / .409 / .714, PER - 16.5
Terry (26.8 min): 14.8 pts, 2.4 ast, 2.1 reb, .505 / .412 / .862, PER - 14.4

Wilcox (13.3 min): 12.9 pts, 5.8 reb, .8 blk, .742 / 0.0 / .762, PER - 14.6
Bass (28.5 min): 12.3 pts, 7.2 reb, 1.0 blk, .432 / 0.0 / .875, PER - 12.2

To be clear: I'm NOT suggesting either Barbosa or Wilcox ought to start over Terry and Bass or anything like that.  However, I do think it's worth asking at this point if they deserve more minutes -- particularly Barbosa, though of particular note with Wilcox is his sky high field goal percentage compared to Bass.

It's fair to wonder, on the other hand, if Barbosa and Wilcox are only producing like they are because they play in short bursts.  Would Barbosa really score more than Terry does in ~27 minutes a game?  Would Wilcox have anything close to that field goal percentage on the number of shots Bass takes?  The answer is probably no in both cases. 

But I think this is worth questioning, because at this point Doc is clearly still working out his rotation, and the only numbers associated with Terry and Bass that are considerably larger are their salaries.

So -- just right, or does the rotation need some shuffling?  I think this a particularly pertinent question in the backcourt, b/c somebody is going to get left out when Bradley comes back.  Lee seems like the obvious guy to lose minutes, but he's the only SG on the roster with the size to defend bigger wings.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 11:41:23 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12377
  • Tommy Points: 843
I think Barbosa is playing the right amount of time. He isnt great at running the offense as a point guard, he is great at putting points on the board. Giving Rondo around 6 minutes of rest time a half is perfect. If Barbosa can continue to come in at around 2 - 3 minutes left in the first and thirds and stay in til the 9 mark of the second and fourth that will be huge, especially if he continues to score the way he does. (Is it just me, or does he make it look incredibly easy to score?) He is really exactly what we need off the bench.

Wilcox needs more time IMO. I think he should be playing 20 minutes a game. Whenever KG is off the floor, Wilcox should be filling in for him. The Bass, Sully lineup just doesnt work for us. Wilcox is a great center for our system, plays very well with Rondo and can get easy buckets in transition. He is very active with his hands and gets tips and creates turnovers.

We have a lot of depth and its difficult because most of the players should be or need to be getting more time, and there is just not enough minutes to go around.

Rondo (38)/ Barbosa (10)
Terry (28)/ Lee (15) Pierce(5)
Pierce(30)/ Green(18)
Bass(28)/ Sully (15)/ Green (5)
KG(28)/Wilcox (20)

That would be my outline of a rotation if I was Doc.

When Bradley comes back? Who knows how the minutes will play out, its going to be tough. I still Think a Bradley and Bass trade to make room for a Gortat or Smith (or an available big man) makes the most sense.
CB Draft 2016:
PG:Tony Parker/Mo Williams
SG:Alec Burks/Manu Ginobili
SF:Al Farouq-Aminu/Jared Dudley/Tony Snell
PF:Dirk Nowitzki/JaMychal Green
C: Deandre Jordan/Roy Hibbert/Alex Len

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 12:51:37 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17551
  • Tommy Points: 1612
I dislike our current guard rotation. Lee should be starting with Terry being the first guard off the bench, and I'd like to see Terry handling the ball more as the backup PG.

As for Wilcox, I'd rather he be starting over Bass, but with Sullinger being the 4th big off the bench, Wilcox balances the rotation better coming off the bench. I like Bass as a bench player, has always seemed more productive in that role.

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 01:05:58 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
Per-36 numbers just are not accurate for comparing guys playing different roles (starting vs. bench, for instance).

While I think Bass should be playing fewer minutes, overall, I think these ratios are about right.  The thing about Barbosa and Wilcox is that they are both incredibly inconsistent players.  They just don't bring it night in and night out, and when they are off, they are completely useless, but when they are on, you need to keep them on the floor (especially Barbosa).

I think Doc has done this pretty well.  He has ridden these guys when they are on, and cut their minutes as much as he can, when they are having a bad night.  Thats the way it should be with guys like that.

Unfortunately, Bass is also that type of player (although he is a little more consistent than Wilcox...but not much), but until recently, there just was no one who could really cut into his minutes who was any more consistent.

However, over the last few games, it has looked like Sully is starting to really settle in, and understand his strengths and limitations at the NBA level.  I would not be surprised to see his minutes really grow, at the expense of Bass.

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 01:28:28 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5813
  • Tommy Points: 10
I love the Blur's offensive explosiveness, and that he's coming around on defense, where he should be good, because of his quickness. He seems to need no time to warm up, which makes him a great fit off the bench. I'd like to see Terry get more time with the ball, to run pick-and-rolls with the bigs, but I'm not gonna complain about Barbosa's role so far—dude is smooth and lethal with the ball in his hands.

Wilcox is my favorite Celtic, so I'd love to see him get more playing time. If I'm being a little more objective, I still think he should get more minutes—I'd like to see him play 20 a game. The Bass-Sully combo is bad news, Wilcox brings a little more height while KG is out, and Wilcox hustles and runs the floor real well, and I think Rondo loves having him out there.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 01:36:58 PM »


  • NCE
  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27116
  • Tommy Points: 2053
More Wilcox court time would be good, especially if he can be on the court with Rondo....but eventually he'll run with AB and that is something I look forward to seeing again. :D . But, he is still returning to form and getting over being sidelined ,  his surgery was months after Greens.  So , I believe the BEST WILCOX days are yet to come this year. ;)

Barbosa doing good and playing the right amount to rest Rondo. (credit Doc)here .

I like JET starting.  Getting his head in the game ASAP is good for the team. We need JET in the game to "SCORE"

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 01:43:55 PM »

Online Boris Badenov

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4882
  • Tommy Points: 983
Barbosa is a feast or famine guy. You pretty much know right away how he's going to affect the game, and Doc is doing a good job of leaving him in when he's hot.

Wilcox should be getting high-teen minutes IMO, but there may be some things we don't see about doing that (his conditioning after a year off, Bass' ego, etc.). Doc gets the benefit of the doubt, for now.

Re: More Time, or Just Right?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 02:17:06 PM »

Offline Atzar

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4200
  • Tommy Points: 723
I think their minutes are about where they should be.  Barbosa will either give you 15 points or he'll give you 0, and you usually find out early which one it is.  Some nights he'll play 25-30 minutes, but others he'll play 5-10.

Wilcox is our best above-the-rim finisher, but that's about all that he does.  He's mistake-prone on defense, and that really limits the opportunities to use him.  Those alley-oops from Rondo are fun to watch, though.