Author Topic: Less Obvious Big Man Targets  (Read 4984 times)

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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2012, 02:05:17 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc). 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 02:11:37 PM by ssspence »

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2012, 03:11:45 PM »

Online fitzhickey

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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2012, 03:15:14 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2012, 04:00:49 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2012, 05:43:51 PM »

Offline jdz101

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Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.

He isn't even getting burn for Milwaukee and his contract sucks. That's pretty much enough for me.


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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2012, 07:21:58 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Not listed: raid the Bucks roster.

There are 2 or 3 guys in MIL who could be valuable (and I don't mean Drew Gooden), and the Bucks are a team very much in limbo -- too many guys at the 4 and 5.

They need to thin out some young parts to make playing time for guys who could be core to their rebuilding.

I'd prefer Sanders to Udoh, but I'd happily take one of the in a value trade. One could also open it up to include the Fresh Prince -- say, LRMM and Sanders for Courtney Lee and cash / picks / Melo.

I'd made a huge play for Sanders and LRMM. I make everyone short of Rondo/KG/PP available for that package. I'd even take on a bad contract to make it happen (obviously Gooden). Of course nothing before January 25th would be possible but something like:

Green/Bass/Sully/Melo
for
LRMM/Sanders/Gooden

I think the money adds up. They might have to take on one of our minimum contracts too if our 74.3M hard-cap gets in the way.

This is taking it too far. 4 bigs for 3 bigs is not a feasible NBA trade. And you're trading 2.5 power forwards to a team that has way too many power forwards.

There are a couple of players from MIL who could bring value to the Cs in a trade. But I'm not interested in making over the roster with Bucks, and I'm not taking back Gooden (and neither is Doc).

What's wrong with Gooden other than his contract? Did he have some issues with Doc that I might have missed? He seems like a good PF with range otherwise.

He isn't even getting burn for Milwaukee and his contract sucks. That's pretty much enough for me.

He's not being used in Milwaukee because they are developing a lot of young big guys, as they should have done last year. He put up great numbers last year though.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2012, 08:19:40 PM »

Offline nostar

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What the deuce.

So we give up a starter, and two pretty talented bench guys, one of whom is on a rookie contract and shows a load of potential for being a starter in the nba. Plus we give up another project 7 footer.

In return we get a reasonable defender that can't do much else, a vet that isn't getting minutes on a pretty mediocre team, and a bench big that's grabbing the astonishing stats of 8 points 7 rebounds a game.

If milwaukee called Danny with that proposal he'd start laughing after he cleaned up his own vomit.

Brandon Bass is loosely a starter here and almost entirely because we don't have a better option. As you may have seen Sully has started a few times already this year which doesn't inspire much confidence in Bass.

I think the only reason I like this trade is because I am pretty high on LRMM. Durant is quoted as saying he's a top NBA defender at the SF position and coming from the scoring champ that is saying something.

Sanders for Melo is a good deal because Sanders can actually play NBA ball now and we're in a win-now mode.

Bass for Gooden is pretty straight forward. We get a little rebounding and physicality and give up some percentages and youth. Also Gooden is up for trade and thusly not a part of the rotation. It's not his play, it's the Bucks organization trying to develop their youth.

Sully is probably the thing that stops be from doing this trade, if anything.

I think this trade does give away some of the future. Including Sully and moving Green before he gets his feet under him is a huge gamble but this trade makes us a better defensive team immediately and I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do it after 24 hrs and a good nights rest :)

Here is another trade that works:

Green/Bass/Sully/Lee/Melo
for
Ellis/LRMM/Gooden/Sanders

The reason I put this up is that it gives our team a better package in return for pretty much all of our youth/depth.

Rondo/Terry
Ellis/AB
PP/LRMM
KG/Gooden
Wilcox/Sanders

We'd have to sign KMart or some serviceable C prospect but it's a team swap from NBA2K13 that will never happen in the NBA. I think the closest we will see was what the Magic did a few years back moving their core team for packages from Phoenix and Washington.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2012, 03:24:22 AM »

Offline jdz101

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What the deuce.

So we give up a starter, and two pretty talented bench guys, one of whom is on a rookie contract and shows a load of potential for being a starter in the nba. Plus we give up another project 7 footer.

In return we get a reasonable defender that can't do much else, a vet that isn't getting minutes on a pretty mediocre team, and a bench big that's grabbing the astonishing stats of 8 points 7 rebounds a game.

If milwaukee called Danny with that proposal he'd start laughing after he cleaned up his own vomit.

Brandon Bass is loosely a starter here and almost entirely because we don't have a better option. As you may have seen Sully has started a few times already this year which doesn't inspire much confidence in Bass.

I think the only reason I like this trade is because I am pretty high on LRMM. Durant is quoted as saying he's a top NBA defender at the SF position and coming from the scoring champ that is saying something.

Sanders for Melo is a good deal because Sanders can actually play NBA ball now and we're in a win-now mode.

Bass for Gooden is pretty straight forward. We get a little rebounding and physicality and give up some percentages and youth. Also Gooden is up for trade and thusly not a part of the rotation. It's not his play, it's the Bucks organization trying to develop their youth.

Sully is probably the thing that stops be from doing this trade, if anything.

I think this trade does give away some of the future. Including Sully and moving Green before he gets his feet under him is a huge gamble but this trade makes us a better defensive team immediately and I'm 50/50 on whether I'd do it after 24 hrs and a good nights rest :)

Here is another trade that works:

Green/Bass/Sully/Lee/Melo
for
Ellis/LRMM/Gooden/Sanders

The reason I put this up is that it gives our team a better package in return for pretty much all of our youth/depth.

Rondo/Terry
Ellis/AB
PP/LRMM
KG/Gooden
Wilcox/Sanders

We'd have to sign KMart or some serviceable C prospect but it's a team swap from NBA2K13 that will never happen in the NBA. I think the closest we will see was what the Magic did a few years back moving their core team for packages from Phoenix and Washington.

You're still trading young guys with great potential for moderate talent in return.

All I see in sanders is a decent rotation big who can block a shot or two.

Gooden is a reasonable player but is on the decline and probably unfit due to complete lack of minutes.

Luc richard is coming back from injury. Also probably unfit and game-slow.

You don't win championships with monta ellis. He is the complete opposite of celtics basketball.


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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2012, 11:07:58 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Didnt read the whole thread but my two lesser big man targets would be

Jordan Hill

Ed Davis

both are athletic and great per 48min rebounders

Lee + Wilcox/melo  for Hill + Ebanks seems reasonable,

the big man rotation could become start Sully + KG, then bench is Bass + Hill. This improves our starting units rebounding by replacing Bass (9.3 per 48) with Sully (11.8 per 48). Hill's rebounding (15.5 per 48) and size will then help the Cs inside when KG is on the bench.

Hill isnt fitting into dantonis' system and they could use Lee on the wing with Kobe.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 11:16:24 AM by CFAN38 »

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2012, 11:27:23 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2012, 11:38:43 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Quote
Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.

Thabeet was way ahead of melo coming out of college. Thabeet average around 13pt 10rb 4.5blk, melo only 8pt 6rb 3 blk both at the age of 22.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2012, 08:11:40 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote
Just a thought:

Hasheem Thabeet's improved play makes me more opportunistic about Fab Melo, who was much more of a polished product coming out of school than Thabeet. Don't expect him to produce this season (like the though of adding Chris Andersen), but it gives me hope.

Thabeet was way ahead of melo coming out of college. Thabeet average around 13pt 10rb 4.5blk, melo only 8pt 6rb 3 blk both at the age of 22.

Yeah, I think they are fairly different as players.  I do think that a large part of Thabeet's college success was that he is just a lot bigger, not that he was necessarily more polished.  Both have a similar lack of experience playing the game.

I think that Hasheem's career trajectory so far is probably similar to what we can expect from Melo, though hopefully without the bouncing around from team to team.  Hopefully, too, the Celtics will be able to get him to develop a bit more quickly by not mishandling him as badly as the Grizzlies mishandled Thabeet.
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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2012, 12:57:53 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

While it's not really small ball, the Knicks looked great against Miami with Melo at the 4.
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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2012, 07:16:21 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

While it's not really small ball, the Knicks looked great against Miami with Melo at the 4.

They have Chandler

Then one 7 footer

Then another

Didn't watch but did their 3 bigs not matter?

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2012, 10:34:48 AM »

Offline fugazzi24

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Here is a trade I feel is realistic and helps both teams. 

Mareesse Speights for Courtney Lee

Memphis needs a back-up SG who can shoot the three and guard SG's like Kobe, Tony Allen has declined this year.  Memphis already has Darrel Arthur who is a good back up PF.   

Boston gets a real 6'10" player who has a good mid-range jumper to spread floor for rondo and the 15th Highest Rebound Rate in the league. 


 

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