Author Topic: Less Obvious Big Man Targets  (Read 5146 times)

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Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« on: November 25, 2012, 10:45:02 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Here's a quick list of big men who come to mind when thinking of potential trade targets to help fix what ails the C's (rebounding, interior defense). 

These players should, in theory, have a lower asking price than the Josh Smiths and Marcin Gortats of the world.  By the same token, they're not All-Stars by any stretch.

-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 10:47:24 PM »

Online hpantazo

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I'd like to grab Mozgov for cheap from the nuggets, but Doc would never play him.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 11:10:31 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Brendan Haywood would be awesome here. He'd play 20-24 minutes a night of unspectacular efficient defense and rebounding. He'd be perfect.

Ol Greg can't get on the floor in Minny either.

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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 11:19:36 PM »

Offline jdz101

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Here's a quick list of big men who come to mind when thinking of potential trade targets to help fix what ails the C's (rebounding, interior defense). 

These players should, in theory, have a lower asking price than the Josh Smiths and Marcin Gortats of the world.  By the same token, they're not All-Stars by any stretch.

-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson aint going anywhere...and the rest of those guys are still significant dropoffs from what KG is, which is what we have now anyway.


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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 10:41:35 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Another name I thought of:

-- Drew Gooden

Not always the best defender during his career, but he seems like the kind of guy who would benefit playing next to KG.

Quote from: jdz101
Jason Thompson aint going anywhere...and the rest of those guys are still significant dropoffs from what KG is, which is what we have now anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by the latter part of this.

Of course all of these guys are significant dropoffs from KG.  I never meant to suggest that any of these players would replace KG.  Rather, the idea, I would think, is to get a player who can play alongside KG for limited minutes, but more importantly somebody who can step into KG's role when KG is on the bench and do at least a credible job of protecting the paint and getting some points inside.  The Celtics desperately need a player like that.  I don't agree with you when you say that we already have that.

As for Jason Thompson's availability, I have to disagree.  He's a nice player, but he hasn't shown anything so far in his career to make him untouchable.  The Kings aren't in a position to consider any players "untouchable" other than Demarcus Cousins.  They need to open up some playing time for their lottery pick Thomas Robinson anyway, and they are pretty weak on the wings. 

I don't think a trade for JT is out of the question, though it may be a long shot.  Probably less so than a trade for Gortat or Josh Smith, though, which is the point of this.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 10:55:46 AM »

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 11:00:20 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 




Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 11:02:31 AM »

Offline relja

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Gamble with Greg Oden? What's his status anyway?

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 11:05:13 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Gamble with Greg Oden? What's his status anyway?


Next season maybe?


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Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 11:06:46 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 11:08:27 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.




Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 11:36:09 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.


Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 11:42:04 AM »

Offline European NBA fan

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I still like Birdman better than any of these for that role. He was Denver's best defensive player last season.

Re: Less Obvious Big Man Targets
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 11:46:15 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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-- Jason Thompson (SAC)
-- Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
-- Ed Davis (TOR)
-- Kosta Koufos (DEN)
-- Timofey Mozgov (DEN)
-- Brendan Haywood (CHA)

Jason Thompson = weak defender and owed a lot of money. Too much of a project.
Zaza Pachulia = weak defender. Overrated.
Ed Davis = still too raw. Not worth pursuing.
Kosta Koufos = solid backup center, I like him. If we could get him for something like Courtney Lee, that would be worth doing.
Timo Mozgov = more raw talent than Koufos but bad fundamentals and has confidence issues. A lot of work to get playing at a good level. Only worth pursuing at a low price.
B.Haywood = can't be traded until next year due to amnesty waiver wire pickup

All good points, but they're all still better rebounders and more a shotblocking presence than any bigs we have on the roster at the moment other than KG.  That's the entire point.

Quote from: wdleehi
Less obvious because most of them will have little to no impact. 

See above.  The idea here is to talk about some names that are actually conceivable, not complete long shots like Gortat and Smith.  We aren't going to get players like that without drastically altering the core rotation of this team, which is less than desirable.

What we need is somebody who can fill the role that Stiemsma played last year, and that Sullinger / Wilcox have been forced to play this year, and do so with more productivity on the boards and with a bit more presence inside.  We're not going to get an All-Star, or really anybody without significant flaws. 

Important to keep in mind, though, that when we say players are weak defenders, that is in another system.  Plenty of players have been weak defenders elsewhere and improved significantly on the Celtics -- Barbosa is only the latest example of this.


They need more then that if they want a better shot at getting past the Heat.  These guys may provide some shot blocking and rebounding, but the Heat will force them off the court.

Maybe so, but I'm confident in the Celtics' smaller lineups to keep up with teams like the Thunder and Heat, so long as the bench is productive and both starting and backup units play elite defense (no small task, but doable based on past results).

Rather, acquiring a player like this would be especially important against the bigger teams, the teams that have the personnel to punish the Celtics' donut-like roster construction (a big hole in the middle on both ends of the court).

The idea is to prevent guys like Tiago Splitter, Larry Sanders, Deandre Jordan, Tyson Chandler, Spencer Hawes, Kris Humphries, Brook Lopez, Derrick Favors (and so on) from completely feasting on us inside, and to give players like Tony Parker and Brandon Jennings a little bit harder of a time attacking the rim, particularly when Garnett is off the floor.  The defensive differential with KG on and off the court is just not sustainable against our more talented, bigger opponents.


No team can keep up with the Heat small ball because of Lebron. 


Teams with the most success seem to be the teams that can outsize the Heat, especially on offense.  The Celtics could until Bosh came back.

Well, the Celtics aren't going to ever be able to go the Grizzlies route (and really, the Grizz are the only team that can do that -- maybe the Jazz) unless the roster gets a drastic overhaul.  But they can make small, meaningful moves to try to shore up some weaknesses to give them a better chance at a higher seed and to become more capable of reaching the conference finals, where they can get another shot at knocking off the Heat.  That's the endgame.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

 

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