Author Topic: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)  (Read 11272 times)

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Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2012, 12:27:23 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

I disagree.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - we've been a horrible rebounding team for years now, yet we've been one of the most successful teams in the league (in terms of wins and playoff wins) since the big 3 era due to our defense.

Right now our defense is poor.  Today was an improvement, but one game is not enough...and it still wasn't quite where it needs to be.

Utah has been one of the best rebouding teams in the league this season and last season - where has it gotten them?  Nowhere, because they are weak defensively. 

When you give up an offensive rebound you give the other team another chance to score - but they still need to actually put it in the basket for it to mean anything. 

If you give up a defensive rebound you give up another chance for you to score, but even if you got that rebound you still need to actually make the second shot for it to mean anything.

When you give up rebounds the opposing teams TAKE more shots.  When you play bad defensively the opposing teams MAKE more shots.  Which of those is more dangerous?

What is more of a difference maker - losing out on 5 offensive rebounds, or forcing 5 more turnovers with defensive pressure?  When the opposing team throws the ball out of bounds, bounces it off their foot under pressure, throws it to the opposition, commits a backcourt violation or gets a 24 second / 10 second violaton then what rebound is there to secure?

Bradley makes a big enough difference on defense that he may be able to bring us back to being an elite defensive team - top 10 and maybe even top 5. If we can do this while continuing to score as well as we have so far, we'd be a dominant team regardless of whether we can get rebounds or not. 

If we can somehow give up Lee + Bas or Lee + Sully and get Gortat in return, then it's Win-win.  We improve our offense, improve our defense AND improve our rebounding compared to last year.  Imagine Bradley's defensive pressure combined with Rondo's quick hands on the perimeter, and then Gortat and KG on the inside as the second line of defense?  Plus Pierce is no slouch defensively either.

As I said, it's a REALLY hard decision to make if the move involves Bradley.  It's really 50/50 on whether we'd be better or worse for it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:34:47 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2012, 01:14:53 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

I disagree.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - we've been a horrible rebounding team for years now, yet we've been one of the most successful teams in the league (in terms of wins and playoff wins) since the big 3 era due to our defense.

Right now our defense is poor.  Today was an improvement, but one game is not enough...and it still wasn't quite where it needs to be.

Utah has been one of the best rebouding teams in the league this season and last season - where has it gotten them?  Nowhere, because they are weak defensively. 

When you give up an offensive rebound you give the other team another chance to score - but they still need to actually put it in the basket for it to mean anything. 

If you give up a defensive rebound you give up another chance for you to score, but even if you got that rebound you still need to actually make the second shot for it to mean anything.

When you give up rebounds the opposing teams TAKE more shots.  When you play bad defensively the opposing teams MAKE more shots.  Which of those is more dangerous?

What is more of a difference maker - losing out on 5 offensive rebounds, or forcing 5 more turnovers with defensive pressure?  When the opposing team throws the ball out of bounds, bounces it off their foot under pressure, throws it to the opposition, commits a backcourt violation or gets a 24 second / 10 second violaton then what rebound is there to secure?

Bradley makes a big enough difference on defense that he may be able to bring us back to being an elite defensive team - top 10 and maybe even top 5. If we can do this while continuing to score as well as we have so far, we'd be a dominant team regardless of whether we can get rebounds or not. 

If we can somehow give up Lee + Bas or Lee + Sully and get Gortat in return, then it's Win-win.  We improve our offense, improve our defense AND improve our rebounding compared to last year.  Imagine Bradley's defensive pressure combined with Rondo's quick hands on the perimeter, and then Gortat and KG on the inside as the second line of defense?  Plus Pierce is no slouch defensively either.

As I said, it's a REALLY hard decision to make if the move involves Bradley.  It's really 50/50 on whether we'd be better or worse for it.

Holy massive posts. Respect for always putting so much thought into your posts.

I love AB.

But for Gortat, definitely.

I agree with both sides.

AB is a beast on D. Even if he's unproven in other areas, his D and youth will make him valuable. He makes plays on the defensive end.

However, Gortat puts us over the top. A solid center who can stay on the floor makes a huge difference. Wish Krstic was still here, would make it better.

Lee is actually more proven (I believe you said Lee can't be a part of the future of the franchise) and a 31 year old center is definitely still going to be at least half decent (he's fairly healthy, which is insanely valuable for a big).

Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2012, 01:33:54 AM »

Offline nostar

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Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.

How about Bass/AB/Melo and a 1st for Gortat and Telfair? I'd take that deal.

Also I am a huge Bradley fan and would hate to see him go, even if it made our team better. For the record I'm not sure it would.

I'd like to wait until AB is healthy and our team is playing together a couple weeks into January before making a move like that.

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2012, 01:48:10 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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crimson_stallion bravo. You're making alot of good thoughtful posts that i agree with also. We could very well already have a team good enough to go the distance. So before making any dramatic trades maybe we should wait until we get one of our most important pieces back in the lineup.

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2012, 02:06:50 AM »

Offline jdz101

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Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

???

You can think a euro center who has never really been a part of playoffs basketball is the difference if you want. I don't.

He did well with Steve Nash in a pick and roll system but still wasn't really enough of a difference maker to win that team serious games.

Reasonable player on a mediocre team. Definitely not worth trading Avery for.


Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

The team that won it all last year didnt have a center. A lot of teams play without a true 7 footer and still manage to rebound the ball a whooooole lot better than us.

Defensive rebounding is 90% effort and positioning and 10% personnel.

Kenneth Faried is 6'8". He certainly puts in the effort when rebounding though.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2012, 02:45:41 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't think holding up Miami as an example of a team that can win it all without a true center is accurate at all.

1) 2 of their 4 other players are top 5 players, not top five positionallly, but top 5 in the entire league, Lebron the clear number 1.

2) Chris Bosh isn't a true center in the way Bynum or Howard are, but he's played center at an elite level for huge portions of his career.

3) they're filled with mulitpositional players. Bron, Bosh, Battier, etc...

Not really a blueprint.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2012, 03:22:29 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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All the post have made great points.

I have been enlightened. We should keep Bradley and just make more efforts on rebounding, which can be done.
"The Boston Celtics are not a basketball team, they are a way of life."

- Red


Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2012, 04:44:31 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.

How about Bass/AB/Melo and a 1st for Gortat and Telfair? I'd take that deal.

Also I am a huge Bradley fan and would hate to see him go, even if it made our team better. For the record I'm not sure it would.

I'd like to wait until AB is healthy and our team is playing together a couple weeks into January before making a move like that.

Just finished the game.

Yup, wait and see, definitely.

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2012, 08:07:04 AM »

Offline jdz101

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I don't think holding up Miami as an example of a team that can win it all without a true center is accurate at all.

1) 2 of their 4 other players are top 5 players, not top five positionallly, but top 5 in the entire league, Lebron the clear number 1.

2) Chris Bosh isn't a true center in the way Bynum or Howard are, but he's played center at an elite level for huge portions of his career.

3) they're filled with mulitpositional players. Bron, Bosh, Battier, etc...

Not really a blueprint.

Wasn't really trying to use Miami as a blueprint for anything. Just using them as an example as one of quite a few teams that can rebound reasonably well despite not being stocked with seven footers.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2012, 08:15:41 AM »

Offline celtics2

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Twitter and the Tooth Fairy now there's a combination. As Celtic fans get delirious about ths Season's possibilities, allegedly's overcome fact. But put that tooth under the pillow, never know.

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2012, 12:27:51 AM »

Offline LarryForThree

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How about Dionte Christmas's phone number and two second rounders for Gortat?

Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2012, 12:36:41 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Sorry, even though we need a center we just cant let Bradley go.
This move will come back and haunt us until the day Avery retires from the NBA. This guy will end up as the best on ball defender ever.

This my feeling too.  Forget salary,  people are looking at what Bradley REALLY means to a team.  I think his true worth is at LEAST Gortat, and I still wouldn't feel comfortable ... I'm biased AB is favorite player after KG.

AB is the only player with KG's intensity ... thats worth  something :)