Poll

Would you trade Avery Bradley to get Marcin Gortat if that is the only deal the Suns would accept?

Yes
40 (51.3%)
No
38 (48.7%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author Topic: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)  (Read 19867 times)

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Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2012, 02:06:47 PM »

Offline Big Rondo

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

2 of our top 5 units that year included KG at PF. And this is when we had JERMAINE ONEAL anchoring our defense at C. Outside of being forced to do a little more of the stat padding dirty work, KG at the 4 is equally as effective to KG at the 5 with the added benefit of keeping him fresher and at a the position he is naturally more comfortable playing. And again, that sample size is over a half a season in a lockout shortened season when ALL our guys came back to start the year out of shape. Like I said, there is no evidence to show KG "is not effective anymore" at is natural 4 spot because he had a slightly better PER playing (gasp) closer to the basket!
Offense sells tickets, Defense wins games, Rebounds win championships.

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2012, 02:14:02 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

Actually those numbers do attempt to make a claim about his defense at each position.  If I have read them correctly, it looks like he was more effective defensively at the four.  Opposing fours had a lower PER against him, and his DRating was better at the four.

I know there is a lot of noise and room for interpretation with those stats, but they don't really conclusively prove that he's no longer effective as a power forward.  Your evidence is flimsy at best.

Whoa whoa whoa, I never ever said he was no longer effective at the 4. I stated that there is evidence that he is more effective at the 5. That doesn't mean he can't play the 4 or anything.

And its not flimsy, but to answer your counterpoint, his DRTG is lower as a 4, but the offense ran so much better that the team was more effective. You can see that in the point differential, you can see that in the fact that he outscores individual opponents by more as a 5, and the team outscores opponents more when he's at the 5.

Its not flimsy evidence.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2012, 02:17:20 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

2 of our top 5 units that year included KG at PF. And this is when we had JERMAINE ONEAL anchoring our defense at C. Outside of being forced to do a little more of the stat padding dirty work, KG at the 4 is equally as effective to KG at the 5 with the added benefit of keeping him fresher and at a the position he is naturally more comfortable playing. And again, that sample size is over a half a season in a lockout shortened season when ALL our guys came back to start the year out of shape. Like I said, there is no evidence to show KG "is not effective anymore" at is natural 4 spot because he had a slightly better PER playing (gasp) closer to the basket!

Again, I'm not stating he's not effective anymore at the 4, I'm stating he's more effective at the 5.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2012, 02:17:36 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).
I didn't look at that link in depth, but I just want to point out something before you read too deeply into those numbers... I've read about this and Simmons has referenced it in one of his podcasts... 

Last year KG was checked out.  He was about done.  Probably heading towards retirement.  The team was below .500 in February... and then KG took two games off for "personal reasons" and something snapped.  Apparently he had a new lust for the game.  I'm not sure what the heck happened to him and what those "personal reasons" were on 2/19 and 2/20... but KG supposedly talked to someone... regained his love for the game... and came back a completely different person.  How much of that is speculation and how much of that is Simmons hinting at inside knowledge... I don't know.  But check those two games in Feb and they most certainly say "personal reasons".   We had a 15-16 record.  Post allstar break, KG averaged 17 points, 8.5 rebounds 3.2 assists, 1 block and 1.1 steals... In the playoffs he was averaging 19.2 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and a steal.   He was the epicenter of our defense and basically carried us (with some help on offense from Rondo) past the mighty Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers.

We won 24 of our last 34 games and it started with KG's sudden rejuvenation.  Now it should be noted that it also coincided with his switch to center.  We had lost 7 of our last 8 games and then on 2/28 against Cleveland, Bass got his first start next to KG.   So how much of KG's rejuvenation had to do with the switch to center and how much had to do with him taking two days off for "personal reasons" and coming back with a new fire?

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2012, 02:18:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).
I didn't look at that link in depth, but I just want to point out something before you read too deeply into those numbers... I've read about this and Simmons has referenced it in one of his podcasts... 

Last year KG was checked out.  He was about done.  Probably heading towards retirement.  The team was below .500 in February... and then KG took two games off for "personal reasons" and something snapped.  Apparently he had a new lust for the game.  I'm not sure what the heck happened to him and what those "personal reasons" were on 2/19 and 2/20... but KG supposedly talked to someone... regained his love for the game... and came back a completely different person.   We had a 15-16 record.  Post allstar break, KG averaged 17 points, 8.5 rebounds 3.2 assists, 1 block and 1.1 steals... In the playoffs he was averaging 19.2 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and a steal.   He was the epicenter of our defense and basically carried us (with some help on offense from Rondo) past the mighty Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers.

We won 24 of our last 34 games and it started with KG's sudden rejuvenation.  Now it should be noted that it also coincided with his switch to center.  We had lost 7 of our last 8 games and then on 2/28 against Cleveland, Bass got his first start next to KG.   So how much of KG's rejuvenation had to do with the switch to center and how much had to do with him taking two days off for "personal reasons" and coming back with a new fire?

That I can't answer. Can't really speak to any of it actually.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2012, 02:23:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).
I didn't look at that link in depth, but I just want to point out something before you read too deeply into those numbers... I've read about this and Simmons has referenced it in one of his podcasts... 

Last year KG was checked out.  He was about done.  Probably heading towards retirement.  The team was below .500 in February... and then KG took two games off for "personal reasons" and something snapped.  Apparently he had a new lust for the game.  I'm not sure what the heck happened to him and what those "personal reasons" were on 2/19 and 2/20... but KG supposedly talked to someone... regained his love for the game... and came back a completely different person.   We had a 15-16 record.  Post allstar break, KG averaged 17 points, 8.5 rebounds 3.2 assists, 1 block and 1.1 steals... In the playoffs he was averaging 19.2 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and a steal.   He was the epicenter of our defense and basically carried us (with some help on offense from Rondo) past the mighty Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers.

We won 24 of our last 34 games and it started with KG's sudden rejuvenation.  Now it should be noted that it also coincided with his switch to center.  We had lost 7 of our last 8 games and then on 2/28 against Cleveland, Bass got his first start next to KG.   So how much of KG's rejuvenation had to do with the switch to center and how much had to do with him taking two days off for "personal reasons" and coming back with a new fire?

That I can't answer. Can't really speak to any of it actually.
I don't imagine that anyone here can.  KG's an interesting character.  And again, I don't know how much of that is speculation or how much of it was Simmons hinting at inside knowledge, but I remember hearing it in a podcast... that KG was checked out and wasn't having fun anymore.  He took a couple games off to get his mind straight and came back a different person.  Something snapped.  Something happened during those two days off that made him regain his enthusiasm for the game of basketball... and it definitely showed in the team's success and his individual stats. 

But yes, it also happens to be when Bass got the default "he's the only big left" starting role next to KG (which forced KG to center).   So it's hard to determine if the change in stats was simply the move to center or had a deeper context.  Just figured I'd bring it up.   I think KG will do just fine playing at PF next to a legit center.

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #96 on: November 25, 2012, 02:24:37 PM »

Offline More Banners

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I'd be interested in seeing KG defend Lebron.  His size and length could pose problems for LBJ like he never really sees.  KG could sag a bit more than most since he could recover to contest the jumper, and I think in that situation KG would be able to defend him pretty well.

But can Gortat defend Bosh?

In all liklihood, the C's would simply zone up.

Doesn't anyone else remember our best defense against the Heat being the zone? With two seven footers to defend the paint, we turn Miami into jumpshooting team and even more effectively than we did last year. Their shots get taken away from the basket while we pound the ball down low and have Gortat and Garnett shoot straight over their defenders. That plus the fact that the rebound battle is ours for the taking gives us a better chance to win than having ANOTHER body to throw at Wade when Lee, Rondo and Barbosa should be more than capable of limiting him enough.

I keep saying it but what Bradley brings to the table is not going to be enough to change the makeup of this team. We're either title ready now with Bradley giving us a slightly stronger edge in dribble penetration (and that's really the only BIG plus he brings that we cant get from our other guards) OR we aren't title ready and need to make a big improvement to our rebounding and interior presence and thus the need for a player like Gortat to take this team from where it is now to being title ready.

If you honestly believe we are title ready as constructed, more power to you but when I see us give up so many 2nd chance points while getting none for ourselves, my mind thinks different.

The zone defense was very effective against Miami when they were playing with two big men (Bosh + Haslem/Anthony/whoever) ... it won't be anywhere near as useful now that Miami has gone small and has spaced out the floor with multiple shooters.

Miami is not jumpshooting their way to a title. Sorry, it just ain't happening. High percentage basketball necessitates scoring points in the paint. I'll take two guys shooting 4 feet away from the basket over smaller defenders every day to a bunch of shooting specialist taking shots 20+ feet away from the basket over guards who can play good defense. The point of the game is to keep them away from the rack and that's what inside presence is for plus it makes 2nd chance points far less likely as the only rebounds they should be getting are the long ones.

Their shooters get a lot of drive-and-kick opportunities.  If the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man is protecting the rim, they can make havoc by forcing help and switches that leave someone open.  Their passing right now is incredibly improved, so that's a problem.  Zone makes more sense now than it used to.

Bradley's advantage/strength is protecting dribble penetration on the perimeter, but he can only guard one guy, and that guy can't be Lebron.

Gortat's advantage is his size and skill in the middle.  He's not made of Marshmallow.

I think the best shot is to go big and long to control the boards and passing lanes.  That's what would make them jumpshooters.  We'd have to be able to switch all screens, pack the middle, trap, and cut off the reverse pass to the weak side.  A zone should accomplish that, and is really the only shot (since their individual players are generally better than any other individual opposing player).

Bradley and Gortat would really both be key pieces in making that happen.

In a forced-choice scenario such as the OP presents, I trade small for big 10 of 10 times, but as much as I'm high on Sully, I'd try to send him with a pick and matching $$ and keep Bradley.


Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2012, 02:33:09 PM »

Offline alajet

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).
I didn't look at that link in depth, but I just want to point out something before you read too deeply into those numbers... I've read about this and Simmons has referenced it in one of his podcasts... 

Last year KG was checked out.  He was about done.  Probably heading towards retirement.  The team was below .500 in February... and then KG took two games off for "personal reasons" and something snapped.  Apparently he had a new lust for the game.  I'm not sure what the heck happened to him and what those "personal reasons" were on 2/19 and 2/20... but KG supposedly talked to someone... regained his love for the game... and came back a completely different person.   We had a 15-16 record.  Post allstar break, KG averaged 17 points, 8.5 rebounds 3.2 assists, 1 block and 1.1 steals... In the playoffs he was averaging 19.2 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.5 blocks and a steal.   He was the epicenter of our defense and basically carried us (with some help on offense from Rondo) past the mighty Horford-less Hawks and 8th seed 76ers.

We won 24 of our last 34 games and it started with KG's sudden rejuvenation.  Now it should be noted that it also coincided with his switch to center.  We had lost 7 of our last 8 games and then on 2/28 against Cleveland, Bass got his first start next to KG.   So how much of KG's rejuvenation had to do with the switch to center and how much had to do with him taking two days off for "personal reasons" and coming back with a new fire?

That I can't answer. Can't really speak to any of it actually.
I don't imagine that anyone here can.  KG's an interesting character.  And again, I don't know how much of that is speculation or how much of it was Simmons hinting at inside knowledge, but I remember hearing it in a podcast... that KG was checked out and wasn't having fun anymore.  He took a couple games off to get his mind straight and came back a different person.  Something snapped.  Something happened during those two days off that made him regain his enthusiasm for the game of basketball... and it definitely showed in the team's success and his individual stats. 

But yes, it also happens to be when Bass got the default "he's the only big left" starting role next to KG (which forced KG to center).   So it's hard to determine if the change in stats was simply the move to center or had a deeper context.  Just figured I'd bring it up.   I think KG will do just fine playing at PF next to a legit center.

Yes, this season especially, it looks like KG has no problems with elevation and seems as healthy as he was before suffering that knee injury. So, there is no concrete proof to say that he's not going to be capable of handling the PFs anymore.

We moved KG to C last season, because Jermaine O'Neal was ineffective (granted, let's cut him some slack, he was never healthy throughout the season) and we had no choice but to start Bass, and as Bass can't play the C, KG had to, and it worked.
Now, if we can get a solid center (Gortat fits into this definition. He's definitely above average. Close to being elite? We may have a debate on that) and use either Bass or Sullinger (provided we don't pack them together for the trade, which wouldn't be a sensible move) as the spark providing PF off the bench instead of throwing them to the fire as starters, we can have an improved ceiling for this team.
That's something I truly believe in.


Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #98 on: November 25, 2012, 02:46:16 PM »

Offline BballTim

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

  KG played most of his pf minutes earlier in the season when he was out of shape. If he'd played center the first half of the season and pf later in the year the numbers would be the opposite of what they were for pf and c.

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #99 on: November 25, 2012, 02:50:34 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

  KG played most of his pf minutes earlier in the season when he was out of shape. If he'd played center the first half of the season and pf later in the year the numbers would be the opposite of what they were for pf and c.

That might also be true. I'm just going from what actually happened. I've never known KG to come into the season out of shape though.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #100 on: November 25, 2012, 02:54:59 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I believe KG can handle playing both positions.


In fact, I would imagine that half of his minutes would still be at C.  The Celtics still need the 7 foot presence.


I imagine KG would play his 1st five minutes at pf and then when he came back in, replace Gortat at C. 



 

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #101 on: November 25, 2012, 02:56:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

  KG played most of his pf minutes earlier in the season when he was out of shape. If he'd played center the first half of the season and pf later in the year the numbers would be the opposite of what they were for pf and c.

That might also be true. I'm just going from what actually happened. I've never known KG to come into the season out of shape though.

  We saw it last year. KG and PP both thought the season was going to be canceled and both came in out of shape. That's why we started out so poorly.

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #102 on: November 25, 2012, 02:58:11 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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People wanna say we are overrating AB while they sit there and act like giving up our best defensive player for a backup center guarantees us a trip to the finals. How ironic is that.

Gortat isn't a backup center. You get him, start him and move KG to his original spot at 4. Now, you have two guys in your lineup that can actually rebound and you don't give away a gazillion of extra possessions in every single game.
No irony I can see.

Ok so, move KG back to the 4 *Where hes not as effective not anymore* and trade our best defensive player for gortat. Irony irony irony.

Zero evidence to support this. I point you to the 2011 season when we were completely dominant with KG at his natural 4 position. Don't get prickly because some of us aren't so quick to buy into the Avery Bradley hype machine.

The fact that you think he's our "best defensive player" shows how twisted things have gotten in your mind (hint: it's actually really KG ::)).

There is actually a lot of evidence to support this.

Please provide it.

Well, here is an easy one:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS13.HTM#bypos

It shows Garnett's stats while at the 4 compared to his production at the 5. And those are mostly offensive numbers. That's not even touching his impact on defense at the 5 (where typically teams hide their least effective offensive weapon, allowing Garnett to roam).

  KG played most of his pf minutes earlier in the season when he was out of shape. If he'd played center the first half of the season and pf later in the year the numbers would be the opposite of what they were for pf and c.

That might also be true. I'm just going from what actually happened. I've never known KG to come into the season out of shape though.

  We saw it last year. KG and PP both thought the season was going to be canceled and both came in out of shape. That's why we started out so poorly.

See I never thought KG was out of shape. Pierce, yes, but it wouldn't be the first time with him.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #103 on: November 25, 2012, 02:59:19 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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"Provide evidence" *Provides evidence* *Excuses come flying in*. I'm done with all the trade talk. Nothing is happening for at least a few weeks anyways. You guys can continue the nonsense tho, carry on.

Re: Gortat/Bradley merged thread. (the one and only)
« Reply #104 on: November 25, 2012, 03:03:55 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksLUyISUV8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYqVcDg048M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YNbh7D3Hus

Avery Bradley is one of the best PERIMETER defenders in the league. Obviously KG is the defensive MVP of this team but he's 60 years old and will die if he plays over 30 minutes a game. Bradley is a young stud who can come into a game and turn the energy around by running the floor for easy baskets and picking up the ball full court. I don't know how anybody could argue that.

Marcin Gortat would be a huge help for this team and I'd love to acquire him, but not for Avery Bradley. It's of my opinion that Avery is the difference between the .500 Celtics and the version that possesses on of the leagues deadliest defenses.