Author Topic: The problem on defense is dribble penetration  (Read 1140 times)

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Offline cman88

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The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« on: November 23, 2012, 01:06:25 PM »
it seems like alot of people think if we obtain Gortat our problems will be fixed. but as long as Terry/Lee/Rondo CANNOT stay in front of guards, the bigs are going to have to come out and help on the perimiter which leaves the paint wide open....

when KG has to come out and stop parker as he gets around Rondo, his guy is left open to the basket. if he stays with his guy, thats a layup for parker

our defense will only improve once we stop the dribble penetration on the pick and rolls...this is why people are looking forward to bradley coming back. because he CAN stay in front of his man which allows Kevin Garnett to stay in the paint

this is the same problem we had last year wtih allen in the starting lineup. guards were penetrating at ease.

Offline 2short

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 01:14:06 PM »
kind of
its more to do with the rotation of players

bradley is a rare bird that he can really stay in front of just about anyone
every other guard and wing on the team angles an opponent towards our bigs, 1st big picks up driver, weak side guy has not been covering that bigs man
too many guys to point out have been missing this BUT its early and our defense is set up for team defense so it'll take awhile

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 01:20:10 PM »
Exactly, TP.

Offline Celtics18

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 04:33:11 AM »
That's only partially true.  Bigs have always had to help on dribble penetration.  Sure, the guards have to do a better job of fighting off screens and staying in front of guys, but the bigs also have to do a better job of rotating and showing and recovering on pick and rolls. 
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Offline bfrombleacher

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 04:47:25 AM »
Well, it's Westbrook. Did a better job late in the game.

CLee on Westbrook definitely helped. Westbrook is just too physical.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 05:59:09 AM »
I thought the defense looked much improved.  Still needs some work, Westbrook can make anyone look bad and same of Durant.

Offline jdz101

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 08:14:49 AM »
I've been saying this for a while so I'll give you a TP.

I know that another quality big will help this team with things like this but I'm so reluctant to support the notion of trading away quality young guys for it.

I know for a fact that a lot of our defense and rebounding problems are system, chemistry and effort related rather than personnel related. Trading for new guys at this point could actually make these things worse rather than better.


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Offline mctyson

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 08:19:03 AM »
Thank you.  Thank you.  THANK YOU.  TP.

Gortat does nothing to solve this problem.

Offline alajet

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 08:19:23 AM »
That's true to an extent.
But if there's a keeper center in behind, you can actually put more ball pressure to the opposing guard to keep him out of his comfort zone.
But yes, recovering to face the attacking player off the screen as quickly as possible is essential to defense.

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »
I actually agree with this.

Anyone can just drive through the lane and create chaos.
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Online wdleehi

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 01:27:36 PM »
And the best way to fix it is to have more then one guy down low to great them, like the Celtics did in 2008. 


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Online blink

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 03:12:33 PM »
TP for this post.  I have mentioned this in other threads as well.  I feel our biggest d problem has been letting guys into the paint from dribble penetration.  It has mostly been guards, but others as well.  Once we clamp down to slow down the penetration, our help D can actually do what it is supposed to do.

I think this is one reason why AB is so missed right now.  When he plays d on the opposing point guard he not only can be effective stopping the dribble penetration, he also takes time off the shot clock from his pressure.  It makes other teams hurry their plays, or gets them out of their sets completely and makes them take more difficult shots. 



it seems like alot of people think if we obtain Gortat our problems will be fixed. but as long as Terry/Lee/Rondo CANNOT stay in front of guards, the bigs are going to have to come out and help on the perimiter which leaves the paint wide open....

when KG has to come out and stop parker as he gets around Rondo, his guy is left open to the basket. if he stays with his guy, thats a layup for parker

our defense will only improve once we stop the dribble penetration on the pick and rolls...this is why people are looking forward to bradley coming back. because he CAN stay in front of his man which allows Kevin Garnett to stay in the paint

this is the same problem we had last year wtih allen in the starting lineup. guards were penetrating at ease.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 03:28:43 PM »
Quote
And the best way to fix it is to have more then one guy down low to great them, like the Celtics did in 2008.

Aye, we should have another to greet them. A lot of our bigs as we are currently constituted are not well suited to this kind of help.   

But I also think we should try harder to deny the lane to them.   Penetration makes you vulnerable to fouls and assists not to mention scoring.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 03:37:44 PM »
And the best way to fix it is to have more then one guy down low to great them, like the Celtics did in 2008.

How soon we forget the defensive job Pierce did that season. The job James Posey did that season. We also had Tony Allen, one of the best perimeter defenders, and Ray Allen was holding his own.

So while indeed KG at his best defensively, and Perk doing his thing, our perimeter defense was very very good.

There's only so much protection the bigs can do, but if the perimeter players are not doing their job, the bigs help won't mean squat.

Most of our big problems are coming from our bigs overhelping because our perimeter defenders simply aren't cutting it. Not Rondo and certainly not Terry. Lee comes and goes.

Offline Celtics18

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Re: The problem on defense is dribble penetration
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 03:42:59 PM »
And the best way to fix it is to have more then one guy down low to great them, like the Celtics did in 2008.

How soon we forget the defensive job Pierce did that season. The job James Posey did that season. We also had Tony Allen, one of the best perimeter defenders, and Ray Allen was holding his own.

So while indeed KG at his best defensively, and Perk doing his thing, our perimeter defense was very very good.

There's only so much protection the bigs can do, but if the perimeter players are not doing their job, the bigs help won't mean squat.

Most of our big problems are coming from our bigs overhelping because our perimeter defenders simply aren't cutting it. Not Rondo and certainly not Terry. Lee comes and goes.

I don't see why it has to be bigs vs. guards when it comes to laying blame for our early defensive struggles.  It takes five guys playing as one to play good, Celtics defense.  I've seen bigs out of position, as well as guards and wings getting burned too easily so far this season.  Everyone has to shore up their defense together. 

It's not a matter of bigs vs. guards as a matter of culpability. 
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